2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Spring Into Sound Sale
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
76 members (anotherscott, antune, bobrunyan, beeboss, Animisha, 36251, BlaisGuitars, 14 invisible), 477 guests, and 494 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 182
V
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
V
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 182
This thread is inspired by the "taming a C7" discussion. I cannot for the life of me see any reason for a grand larger than about 6 ft (say 180 to 190 cm) in a home, unless it is a chateau with attached concert hall. My music room is quite large and houses two pianos, two harpsichords and a hybrid pipe organ, but I allways think that the forte sound of the "A" with the lid open is way over the top. And the room is book-lined, draped and carpeted.

The only reason would be for a professional musician wishing really beefy bass for his practice, in preparation for the full size concert grand in the hall. This prompts me to review in my mind the sound of all the 6 footers I have tried. The one that most impressed me for bass was a Fazioli 183. Next was a Hoffmann P 188. I do not know how much was due to prep, and what techs can do to bolster bass. The S&S A is also quite good, but not as beefy as the Fazioli.


Steinway "A" (Hamburg, 2020). Roland LX 706 (2018). Viscount Sonus 45 hybrid organ with 165 real pipes by Pesce (2019). Franco-german 1780 style harpsichord by Marc Fontaine (2020). English-school harpsichord by Jacobus Kirkmann (authentic, 1761).
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 7,823
Silver Subscriber
7000 Post Club Member
Offline
Silver Subscriber
7000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 7,823
I can’t answer for everyone or for every room. My house is not a mansion, but my 7 foot piano is perfect for the room size and I love the base. And I always play on full stick. YMMV


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
"I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

It's ok to be a Work In Progress
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,289
1000 Post Club Member
Online Content
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,289
The 5'8" PETROF I have coming was plenty full of sound even in a store, so I can't wait to hear how it will sound in my small 1939 house! I am with the OP on pianos over 6 feet in homes, but it's one of those "to each their own" things. There is a piano teacher around here who has a D in his livingroom that touches several of the walls with not much room left for the player. (Several of my past students had trial lessons with him, but I guess his personality was so difficult that they chose me and my at-the-time tiny Kawai console.) Anyway, I think 7' in a large living room might be okay (my son's clarinet teacher has a 7' in his living room and it almost looks small), but a concert grand in a house makes me roll my eyes. But, again, to each their own. I am sure a lot of people will think a 5'8" in my dining room is way overkill, but I wouldn't dare go smaller.

I will have a chance this summer to try a 1980s B in a small home. I can't wait to see how that sounds.

I walked through the "ultra rich neighborhood" last night so that I can see into their livingrooms in search of grand pianos through the windows. Almost every house has a grand piano in their livingroom. Knowing a lot of people who live there, those pianos are just for show and seen as class-based furniture; they are not played, and they are often Young Chang grands from yesteryear, not even S&S. My point is that they are all pretty small. I think the largest one I saw was maybe 168cm. Most were in the 5'2" range.


I do music stuffs
Yep, I have a YouTube channel!
Current:
1998 PETROF Model IV Chippendale
LEGO Grand Piano (IDEAS 031|21323)
YAMAHA PSR-520

Past:
2017 Charles Walter 1500 in semi-polish ebony
1991 Kawai 602-M Console in Oak
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 29,645
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 29,645
I have a 7' M&H in a 12'x18' living room and the volume is not a problem. Many pianists have larger than 6' pianos in relatively small spaces without the piano being too loud. Many PW posters don't think longer grands are even any louder than shorter ones although I don't have an opinion on that. IOW I think the premise of the thread is not true.

Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 481
H
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
H
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 481
I haven’t tried a lot of pianos at 6 foot but the Shigeru Kawai SK3, Yamaha C3X and Estonia L190 are all too small for me.

If I was forced to pick a smaller instrument, I would go for a Mason & Hamlin AA, or a Steinway A3. Baldwin L might be a good one as well. Those were wonderful pianos!

Last edited by Harpuia; 04/08/21 02:40 PM.

Piano: 1982 NY Steinway Model B, Yamaha AvantGrand N3X
VST(preference in order): VSL Synchron Pianos, Vienna Imperial, Garritan CFX, VI Labs Modern U, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 481
H
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
H
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 481
I also don’t think longer pianos means larger volume. The room acoustics really play a big role in it. The issue with large grand pianos in a small space is that you have fewer ways to place your piano.

With a smaller piano, you are more flexible and have more space for furnishing your room.


Piano: 1982 NY Steinway Model B, Yamaha AvantGrand N3X
VST(preference in order): VSL Synchron Pianos, Vienna Imperial, Garritan CFX, VI Labs Modern U, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 589
D
Platinum Subscriber
500 Post Club Member
Offline
Platinum Subscriber
500 Post Club Member
D
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 589
The longest piano I’ve had is the best one. There is something to be said for the quality of tone that counts as much as decibels.

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 886
S
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 886
I have a customer with a Steinway D and a Steinway B in a small converted bedroom. Had to move them around a few times, but it works, and there is a definite reason to play a D if you can

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 29,407
B
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 29,407
Back to your original topic, I believe that bass strings on pianos above 6 feet have more flexibility, and so they are more prone to excitation in higher modes. This can be voiced out of the longer pianos, but it is not always done. So the maintenance makes a lot of difference. But longer pianos can sound better than shorter ones. In the shorter piano, the bass may always be more in a higher mode so you get used to it, but the sound is less clear.


Semipro Tech
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 6,141

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015
6000 Post Club Member
Online Content

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 6,141
Originally Posted by SonatainfSharp
I walked through the "ultra rich neighborhood" last night so that I can see into their livingrooms in search of grand pianos through the windows. Almost every house has a grand piano in their livingroom. Knowing a lot of people who live there, those pianos are just for show and seen as class-based furniture; they are not played, and they are often Young Chang grands from yesteryear, not even S&S. My point is that they are all pretty small. I think the largest one I saw was maybe 168cm. Most were in the 5'2" range.


I don't know if it's just me, but this seems "off" on multiple levels.


“If it sounds good, it IS good.”
― Duke Ellington
!
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 182
V
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
V
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 182
Originally Posted by dogperson
I can’t answer for everyone or for every room. My house is not a mansion, but my 7 foot piano is perfect for the room size and I love the base. And I always play on full stick. YMMV

OK, I stand corrected, and I certainly believe it's fun to own a 7 footer if you have space for it. Maybe in Europe we are used to smaller things, like with our homes and cars, although again someone from Europe will prove me wrong... blush

But my question remains : any ideas about good bass in a six-footer ?


Steinway "A" (Hamburg, 2020). Roland LX 706 (2018). Viscount Sonus 45 hybrid organ with 165 real pipes by Pesce (2019). Franco-german 1780 style harpsichord by Marc Fontaine (2020). English-school harpsichord by Jacobus Kirkmann (authentic, 1761).
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,031
W
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
W
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,031
How about trying a Yamaha CF4 alongside a Steingraeber B192 and a Grotrian G192? The CF4 will give you a good bass but you might prefer the character of the German pianos.


Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 140cm
Ibach, 1905 F-IV, 235cm
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 29,645
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 29,645
Originally Posted by Vikendios
But my question remains : any ideas about good bass in a six-footer ?
I think any of the pianos in Iconic, Renowned, and Distinguished sections Performance Grade Pianos in Fine's ranking will have an excellent bass in their around six foot model. The M&H model A has a huge bass but some might say it's too big for the rest of the piano balance wise.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 04/08/21 06:06 PM.
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 55
F
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
F
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 55
I have a 6’8” Bechstein Model B in my 11’x16’ living room.
I’ve tried many pianos from under 5’ to over 7’.
Generally (but not always) the larger the better for bass in my experience.
180cm to 190cm is about 5’11” to 6’3”.
From what I played hunting for a piano:
5’11” Bechstein Model A was OK. Better than anything smaller.
6’3” Bluthner that I tried had good bass and overall a lovely tone.
7’4” Bechstein Model C was fantastic.
I haven’t played a Fazioli or S&S. I don’t think I could afford one.

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,797
D
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
D
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,797
For richness, clarity, incisiveness, I have heard very few pianos in which the bass matches mine - which is a mere 180 cm. A Bluthner of 1878. I think the reason perhaps is that the bass is straight-strung.

Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 1,173
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 1,173
I can answer the big bass question. For over three years i have been collecting soundboard data from every manufacturer i come across and rebuild.
Comparing rib scales as one element, i found how mfg's design flexibility into the bass ribs to get a bigger bass. On a scale from 50 to 100
50 being stiff and 100 being flexible. Steinway is 60 except the B and D which are 80. Mason and Hamlin is 75, Baldwin is 80. I just got a Baldwin SD-6 in and will be analysing it soon. Very big bass on this one. The Bluthner is mentioned, it measured at 85, as well as Decker Bros, and Collard and Collard. Chickering measured at 100. But i think anything over 85 contain engineering flaws. I will be publishing my database, computer software and a manual in the near future. Groundbreaking info for any future designer or rebuilder wishing to have more control over the outcomes of their boards.

-chris


Chernobieff Piano Restorations
"Where Tone is Key"
Lenoir City, Tennessee U.S.A
www.chernobieffpiano.com
grandpianoman@protonmail.com
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 324
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 324
Put your 6' piano parallel to a wall and all\any of them will be the 'best'.

Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 268
E
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
E
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 268
The piano will be plenty loud, but you'll have cancellations if the room is small. so there will be valleys in a few notes.

Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 261
S
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
S
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 261
Have you considered the Yamaha SX series? The hand wound bass strings combined with the acoustic resonance enhancement gives them really good bass. If you go and watch James Pavel Shawcross's videos on them, he comments that the bass on the smaller models is much better than you would expect for a piano of that size.

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,031
W
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
W
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,031
What are your criteria for best bass, Vikendos? Incisive, rich, clear, musical, beefy. loud? How much would you budget for acoustic treatment of the room? Repertoire?

And the pianist's ears?


Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 140cm
Ibach, 1905 F-IV, 235cm
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Couch to Concert Hall
Couch to Concert Hall
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Online piano technician's course comparison
by letters.music - 04/16/21 09:29 AM
Three questions about sampled VST:s
by johanibraaten - 04/16/21 07:38 AM
Ideal acoustics of the music room
by kre - 04/16/21 06:58 AM
That new digital piano by Kawai (vs P515)
by onaiplatigid - 04/16/21 04:56 AM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics206,325
Posts3,083,023
Members101,205
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5