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Originally Posted by BlakeOR
Anyone in PDX that wants to swing by? :P

Sure, if you want smile

I go to Hillsboro twice a week so I pass Beaverton. And I always like to play nice pianos smile

Just got my first covid shot this afternoon!

Last edited by twocats; 04/08/21 02:33 AM.

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High frequencies attenuate more rapidly than lower frequencies as they travel. It might make sense to design 7' and 9' pianos to be brighter than shorter pianos so that the high frequencies won't be over-attenuated by the time the sound reaches a listener in a performance hall.


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Originally Posted by twocats
Originally Posted by BlakeOR
Anyone in PDX that wants to swing by? :P

Sure, if you want smile

I go to Hillsboro twice a week so I pass Beaverton. And I always like to play nice pianos smile

Just got my first covid shot this afternoon!

Also, just realized that in a couple of weeks my tech is taking my keyboard and action, so I'll only have an uninspiring digital to practice on. So if you're serious, this may work out for both of us wink

Also, happy to be your extra hands for installing the ceiling cloud. I have no problems standing on a chair or a ladder but I'm pretty short!

Last edited by twocats; 04/08/21 03:13 AM.

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What about a string cover?


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Originally Posted by j&j
What about a string cover?

I had a string cover for my Petrof IV. I think it dulled the highs without really reducing the sound much.


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Actually twocats, with all the tinkering you've done with your tech on your Bosie, your perspective might be useful to me. As in, a reference point whether the piano itself actually seems bright or harsh, or whether it's more my ears. If it does seem overly loud to another player, then I will more seriously consider voicing or even getting a smaller piano as long term options to try (after I try more acoustics, get my ears checked, etc).

Plus, I'm really close to Hwy 26 at Tanasbourne area smile So, 2 weeks would be perfect timing to tinker aorund with a little Chopin with someone else in the room. Why not, would be fun!

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When you have a piano that's too big for the room, here is a couple other techniques I have use successfully.
1) Shorten the hammer blow distance. This can reduce the power delivered to the strings. You will also have to adjust after-touch.
2) You can apply All fabric softener/alchohol solution(1:2) to the moulding tip. This won't affect the tone, but reduces the dynamic from FFF to FF or F.

Technique #1 is easy and can be done by most techs. #2 requires more experience.

-chris

Last edited by Chernobieff Piano; 04/08/21 11:23 AM.

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All this is opening a very big subject, which has been discussed very recently, extensively, and Searchably in the last couple of years. But the most important thing to remember is that hearing can be conserved and protected, but once it is damaged it cannot be brought back. The initial experience of tinnitus after (or during) piano practice is like the siren going off to warn of a tornado. We may not especially like going down in the root cellar, but most of us would prefer it to blowing away when the house goes.


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Originally Posted by BlakeOR
Actually twocats, with all the tinkering you've done with your tech on your Bosie, your perspective might be useful to me. As in, a reference point whether the piano itself actually seems bright or harsh, or whether it's more my ears. If it does seem overly loud to another player, then I will more seriously consider voicing or even getting a smaller piano as long term options to try (after I try more acoustics, get my ears checked, etc).

Plus, I'm really close to Hwy 26 at Tanasbourne area smile So, 2 weeks would be perfect timing to tinker aorund with a little Chopin with someone else in the room. Why not, would be fun!

Oh, that's not out of my way at all! Message me and we'll figure it out.

My piano has gotten louder and Chopin Nocturne melody notes sound harsh unless I put the lid on the small stick. I am hoping that with the new hammers I'll be able to play with the lid on full stick for everything.

I assume you don't have a small stick option? You might want to play with the lid closed for now.


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Jeff - Yep, all of the recent discussions on here are why I know to pursue voicing the room, about the musician's ear plugs, etc. What I don't see out of any of them, is the person with the problem confirming that any adjustments they did solved the issue. Most complaints about piano loudness are not from the perspective of the player, but for the benefit of others in the house or neighbors.

Which is why I'm moving slowly, not pursuing modifications to the instrument right away, but instead adding soft surfaces to the room, starting with the MD appt in a few weeks for a hearing check, and trying to force myself to use my earplugs, play on short stick or with lid down, etc.

Lots of good suggestions in this thread. If I find the magic bullet I'll post it, as it will be helpful for anyone else in the same situation. I suspect I just have some hearing issues though, which didn't get brought out until I started playing piano again.

Twocats - yep, same here with the Nocturnes (working on Op 72 right now). Full stick, the melody line gets harsh pretty easily. Short stick, a bit better, bass still dissipates out into the room nicely. Flylid open/lid down - not much volume difference vs short stick, with worse balance between bass/treble. Fully closed up/music desk on top: Sounds ok, but it crushes the treble and I think short stick + earplugs is better for practice.

Anyway, I'll stop distracting this thread, and let someone talk about Yamaha C7s! smile

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Here are two pix, if this works, to better demonstrate the foam placement. Neil Adler
https://mail.yahoo.com/b/folders/1/messages/AC3Ei7EBr9cfYG8skgUoUCwxsGQ/AC3Ei7EBr9cfYG8skgUoUCwxsGQ:4?.src=ym&reason=myc&folderType=INBOX&action=previewAttachment

https://mail.yahoo.com/b/folders/1/messages/AC3Ei7EBr9cfYG8skgUoUCwxsGQ/AC3Ei7EBr9cfYG8skgUoUCwxsGQ:2?.src=ym&reason=myc&folderType=INBOX&action=previewAttachment

Last edited by nadlerus; 04/08/21 12:23 PM.

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nadlerus, unfortunately we can't view images from your email account.

I usually upload pics to imgur (only lets me do it from a computer, not phone) and then I can share the pics here.


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Quote
Most complaints about piano loudness are not from the perspective of the player, but for the benefit of others in the house or neighbors.

So your real question is not about the piano, but your health. Since i am not a Doctor, but work hard to avoid a Doctor at all costs. I'll recommend two books that will change your life.
#1 is "Lets play doctor" by Doctors Wallach and Ma Lan You'll learn tinnitus has a variety of causes two of which are nutritional and metal toxicity. pg.311 He recommends how to get rid of it. Which leads to ...

#2 is Look Young, Live Longer by Gayelord Hauser. Free book online. Best nutritional book i ever read, i follow his guidelines and so did Steve Reeves (I drink his wonderful shake every single day).

All the Best,
-chris


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@OR I was going to ask if musicians earplugs have been mentioned but I see that they have. Still wonder if you have found them effective, or if you haven't got any yet, if you have thought of trying an inexpensive pair off the shelf like these from a UK vendor to see how much they help before your discussion with an MD, or treating the room.

Something to investigate for myself!


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As I said elsewhere, yesterday I worked on a C3 and a C7, and neither was noticeably louder than the other, even with the C3 in a large room and the C7 in a small room. This only makes sense, since there is not much difference between the top register of either piano, and the rest of the piano needs to blend in.


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Reading BDB's post, I suspect loudness depends more on how hard you strike the hammers than the piano you buy.


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Originally Posted by Withindale
@OR I was going to ask if musicians earplugs have been mentioned but I see that they have. Still wonder if you have found them effective, or if you haven't got any yet, if you have thought of trying an inexpensive pair off the shelf like these from a UK vendor to see how much they help before your discussion with an MD, or treating the room.

Something to investigate for myself!

Yep, I have the etymotic ER20s. They're not bad. Easy to put in. Tone doesn't get crushed too badly at all with them. I only get frustrated with them in two respects:

1. If playing pp, like arpeggio left hand vs singing melody, it is sometimes hard to distinguish between a barely voiced note, and a dead note in that quiet hand.
2. Sometimes I get a wrong note, and not quite as easy to tell (though I do not have great pitch)

I plan on getting custom ones made, that will perfectly fit in my ear canal, and maybe the ENT/audiologist will tell me I can get away with a very light filter.

If I'm playing a big piece (currently working on the Funeral March from Chopin Sonata #2 - the earplugs are 100% always in.

Worst case, I buy a digital for practice, and use the grand for fun. Since I practice 1-3 hours per day, that's kind of the nuclear option. Probably better than continually trading grand pianos or looking for a bigger house:)

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Another thing you can try (quick and easily reversible) is to tuck some bath towels under your soundboard. It worked like a charm when a tuner suggested it for my upright. Originally I had put 4 towels, one in each section, but it deadened the sound too much. I removed two and it was perfect. My piano still sounded great, too.


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Originally Posted by BlakeOR
Originally Posted by Withindale
@OR I was going to ask if musicians earplugs have been mentioned but I see that they have. Still wonder if you have found them effective, or if you haven't got any yet, if you have thought of trying an inexpensive pair off the shelf like these from a UK vendor to see how much they help before your discussion with an MD, or treating the room.

Something to investigate for myself!

Yep, I have the etymotic ER20s. They're not bad. Easy to put in. Tone doesn't get crushed too badly at all with them. I only get frustrated with them in two respects:

1. If playing pp, like arpeggio left hand vs singing melody, it is sometimes hard to distinguish between a barely voiced note, and a dead note in that quiet hand.
2. Sometimes I get a wrong note, and not quite as easy to tell (though I do not have great pitch)

I plan on getting custom ones made, that will perfectly fit in my ear canal, and maybe the ENT/audiologist will tell me I can get away with a very light filter.

If I'm playing a big piece (currently working on the Funeral March from Chopin Sonata #2 - the earplugs are 100% always in.

Worst case, I buy a digital for practice, and use the grand for fun. Since I practice 1-3 hours per day, that's kind of the nuclear option. Probably better than continually trading grand pianos or looking for a bigger house:)

With all the positive reviews, I got my pair of ER20 from amazon. It is pretty hard for me, and thus caused discomfort. It's a very unnatural feeling. Does it work? I dont fee it.

I changed to use a cheap one - 3M™ Foam Earplugs 1100. Soft and fit my ears and yes it took a few seconds as it expends.

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Originally Posted by twocats
Another thing you can try (quick and easily reversible) is to tuck some bath towels under your soundboard. It worked like a charm when a tuner suggested it for my upright. Originally I had put 4 towels, one in each section, but it deadened the sound too much. I removed two and it was perfect. My piano still sounded great, too.

Huh, I just stuffed a throw blanket between the cross beams and the soundboard, and it tamed the treble, just took a bit of the sharpness off of it. Good suggestion. I might tinker with this some more. I had tried previously stuff piled up under the piano on the floor, but didn't seem to do much.

Given Portland's climate, I think I could get away with using some of that foam under the soundboard without any worries about humidity. I saw the previous posts about that, but never considered doing a test run with towels or blankets.

Maybe there's more room for improvement on just tinkering with acoustics than I thought...and my plan to put up some additional acoustic panels is more promising.

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