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Originally Posted by wouter79
J Joe Townley

regarding


According to my metronome your playing here seems more in the 4*140=560 notes per minute range.

That index finger looks not good. A lot of tension. I'm surprised how fast you can still play without that finger.

Are you not using that finger in big parts of these scales at all?

BTW I think this piece would benefit from trading speed for other things like bringing out lines and dynamics.

What was happening at that time was I had been practicing for maybe 3 months prior to this trying to work my technique back up after about 25 years away from the piano. I made several videos none too good (3 others on my channel) in the subsequent 3 months and the nerve damage--finger curling upward and spasms--had already returned and was hampering my playing by then. This particular video and the Chopin Sonata No 3 Finale I had to invent some creative fingering to use just 1-3-4-5 for 95% of it--a lot I mean a LOT of passing my 3 over 5 (and thumb) on black keys.


Townley: Piano Concerto No 2 in C Minor Op 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK1WR7oPY44
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Sounds like focal dystonia.

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I just checked, and I can do RH bursts of sixteenth notes (for example, a 2 octave descending chromatic scale, or Db major scale) at 200 bpm. My left hand hasn't really caught up with the right, and I can only manage 160-170, 180 tops. I have never really practiced scales or learned the proper technique to play them in the past, due to which I can't really play them hands together well.

I think top notch concert pianists can get into the 220-240 bpm range. I checked Hamelin's speed when he plays the HR2 scales at the end, and it comes out to be about 16 notes per second, or 240 bpm.

For achieving agility, an unsolicited piece of advice from me is to start super fast and then slow down! wink

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Hi Joe, several different piano "schools" specialize in retraining injured musicians via minor changes in technique. Individual classes can be done by Zoom or FaceTime. Also, there are camps, DVDs, and streaming videos to supplement individual teaching.

Before retraining, your doctor might recommend a hand specialist.

You can search the forums here to see the experience of injured PW members for their experiences.

https://www.golandskyinstitute.org/

https://www.taubman-tapes.com/

I don't know if you have dystonia but found this poster to be interesting
https://wellbalancedpianist.com/dystonia-poster/

Last edited by newer player; 04/08/21 10:28 AM.
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Originally Posted by chopin_r_us
Sounds like focal dystonia.

I don't think this is FC. It didn't come on gradually and my finger doesn't curl under like Graffman and Fleischer. It was a trauma to the finger.


Townley: Piano Concerto No 2 in C Minor Op 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK1WR7oPY44
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Originally Posted by newer player
Hi Joe, several different piano "schools" specialize in retraining injured musicians via minor changes in technique. Individual classes can be done by Zoom or FaceTime. Also, there are camps, DVDs, and streaming videos to supplement individual teaching.

Before retraining, your doctor might recommend a hand specialist.

You can search the forums here to see the experience of injured PW members for their experiences.

https://www.golandskyinstitute.org/

https://www.taubman-tapes.com/

I don't know if you have dystonia but found this poster to be interesting
https://wellbalancedpianist.com/dystonia-poster/

Thanks for the references, player. I will have a look at them. Much appreciated. smile


Townley: Piano Concerto No 2 in C Minor Op 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK1WR7oPY44
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I had terrible wrist and arm pain from piano; a few Golandsky teachers sorted my technique and completely erased the pain after several months. Changing habits and techniques takes some time. I have no expertise in medicine or music FYI.

The videos and written materials give an idea of the technique so don't waste too much time wading through that. Rather have a specialized teacher observe your playing and plot out a course of action. To be clear, I think the streaming videos may be helpful in conjunction with your one-on-one classes, but self-training is not a substitute.

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Originally Posted by newer player
I had terrible wrist and arm pain from piano; a few Golandsky teachers sorted my technique and completely erased the pain after several months. Changing habits and techniques takes some time. I have no expertise in medicine or music FYI.

The videos and written materials give an idea of the technique so don't waste too much time wading through that. Rather have a specialized teacher observe your playing and plot out a course of action. To be clear, I think the streaming videos may be helpful in conjunction with your one-on-one classes, but self-training is not a substitute.

I'm familiar with Golandsky. I've watched several of her videos on technique on YouTube. thank you. I will check her out.


Townley: Piano Concerto No 2 in C Minor Op 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK1WR7oPY44
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Can I ask why you want to focus (what seems to me) on this kind of repertoire given what has happened to you? You can do so many other things and still enjoy it? Playing piano is a kind of therapy to me.

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Originally Posted by newport
Can I ask why you want to focus (what seems to me) on this kind of repertoire given what has happened to you? You can do so many other things and still enjoy it? Playing piano is a kind of therapy to me.

Actually, I don't play anymore because of my injury. Scales are about all I can do consistently and they're mostly with just the left hand, occasionally with the right too until the twinge and spasms start and then I quit.


Townley: Piano Concerto No 2 in C Minor Op 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK1WR7oPY44
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Joe, am I understanding right that when you went back to regain technique, the problem with that finger took some time to reveal itself? This makes me think that the Golandsky folks might well be able to help. The original injury was a trauma, but if playing brings back something that was not a constant problem, then something in the technique is an aggravating factor.

BTW I don't know whether your problem is a dystonia or not, but they've had a lot of success with dystonias at the Golandsky Institute. In my own case, I thought there was something wrong with my right pinky because it would straighten involuntarily and I couldn't control it. It took some months of study with a Taubman teacher before I learned it could behave normally; now I don't even think about it.

I'm nowhere near your playing level, but many of their students are.


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Originally Posted by jdw
Joe, am I understanding right that when you went back to regain technique, the problem with that finger took some time to reveal itself? This makes me think that the Golandsky folks might well be able to help. The original injury was a trauma, but if playing brings back something that was not a constant problem, then something in the technique is an aggravating factor.

BTW I don't know whether your problem is a dystonia or not, but they've had a lot of success with dystonias at the Golandsky Institute. In my own case, I thought there was something wrong with my right pinky because it would straighten involuntarily and I couldn't control it. It took some months of study with a Taubman teacher before I learned it could behave normally; now I don't even think about it.

I'm nowhere near your playing level, but many of their students are.

I appreciate the reference, jdw. I've been looking at Taubman videos made by Dr Durso and Golandsky and it looks interesting. My problem is age and starting all over from scratch at my age (70) is not very appealing. It was a lot of work just getting back into halfway-decent shape back in 2004. I can't imagine doing it all again 17 years later. But thank you for thinking of me.


Townley: Piano Concerto No 2 in C Minor Op 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK1WR7oPY44
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