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Technique doesn't come from a finger exercise. It comes from knowledge of physics, anatomy and mechanics. Your arm is a "machine" of levers, pulleys, rubber bands, fulcrum and there are proper and improper ways to move. Hanon nor Czerny can give you that. No matter how many hours and decades you spend playing them, if you are moving incorrectly, you are only hard wiring improper movement into your brain.
Learn to move properly and a facile technique will just fall out of your hands with no exercise, warmup or need to practice. Do you need to practice riding a bike? No, once your brain hard wires proper movement and balance, it is there forever. The arms are no different. Once a bad habit is hard wired, like the first time we touch a piano, it can take a lifetime to eradicate it.
If you learn to use the incorrect muscles as most pianists do, or non-existent ones as Hanon and Czerny espouse, you will hard wire improper movement into your brain and forever struggle to beat your hands into submission. That is why teachers spew "endurance and strength" because they don't know the laws of physics which result in effortlessness.
If you've ever run in a three legged race, at first it is a struggle but once you and your partner sync up, it is easy. However, if one of you doesn't have the mental acuity to sync, there will be an imbalance and there is not much YOU can do about it.
Playing from the wrong muscles creates a myriad of imbalances and teachers think you need "strength and endurance and more practice" to fix it. No, you need a better teacher.
Playing the piano is all in the arms. The fingers are the conduit between the brain and piano. Hanon can be wonderful if you have an ergonomic technique but, if you have an ergonomic technique, you don't need Hanon.
If I see Hanon at a garage sale for a nickel or quarter, I buy it so no one else does. Then I use it to start the fire in my smoker. Mmmmm, 16th note burgers. Gurgle, drool . . . . (my Homer Simpson impersonation).
If your teacher doesn't know how the abductors affect the flexors or, the importance of pronator and supinator muscles, or the dangers or ulnar and radial deviation, then you've probably already developed bad habits.
Likewise, if a teacher teaches to cross the thumb under the palm . . . RUN!!!!!
It seems from this text that it's enough to read how to play and voila - you are a virtuoso. No. To read and to see how to play is just a beginning of the infinite process of optimization of movements and of adapting of movements to one's individual anatomy. And that's what exercises are created for.
Besides, there are no "correct" way of playing, say, octaves. Octaves can be played mostly with the wrist, with the elbow, with shoulder or with torso, and all this is correct and necessary in certain places. It concerns many types of technique.
It seems from this text that it's enough to read how to play and voila - you are a virtuoso. No. To read and to see how to play is just a beginning of the infinite process of optimization of movements and of adapting of movements to one's individual anatomy. And that's what exercises are created for.
Exactly! This post makes it seem like playing the piano is one "Aha!" moment, like when you finally get how to keep your balance on a bicycle, and that from that moment on you just need to reinforce. That is NOT how piano technique is learned! Piano technique contains thousands of different mini-skills. Just a few examples: wrist and arm movements in arpeggios, holding notes while playing other notes in the same hand, finger substitution, voicing of chords, large jumps, trills, legato thirds... Hanon is mostly concerned with scalar passage work, which is just one tiny aspect of technique.
I practice my riding skills all the time. Anyone who thinks they can sign up for the Tour de France after learning how to go from training wheels to racing a $20,000 racing bike is in for a surprise.
Being able to play two fingers “Chopsticks” means you can play the piano, but it does not mean you can play Bach, Mozart or Chopin.
I play Hannon daily to warm up and improve/maintain technique (note: there are many non Hannon exercises that also improve technique). I am amazed how many times I have to stop playing a pop song to acknowledge: “That is a “Hannon Technique” that I just played!
On the bike or on the swim or run, I warmup and do specific drills to improve performance. Going from a pedal masher to a round peddler on a bike takes much practice and drilling.
So if one is happy playing one finger only songs, then yes forget the drills and warm up.
I do not understand how Hannon and Cerny exercises use non-existent muscles? Or how the author knows that most pianist use the wrong muscles?
The hard is what makes it great. If it was easy everyone would do it! Tom Hanks
I think you all are looking too much into the details of his post and ignoring the broad idea that Hanon or whatever exercise by itself is of no value unless you are aware, or are made so, of how and when to use which "generic" area of your muscles and joints appropriately. It's not like "Aha! Now I'll use my middle finger's middle joint!" Take gym for instance, or a high bar. Rather than pulling up and down a high bar with no awareness of which muscles to stiffen and which ones to loosen, your progress could slow down or worse some muscles might get hurt.
I agree though, that exercises are necessary to figure such things out slowly in the long run, but again, being aware of your anatomy and the force, I believe, can prevent possible damages and yield results faster as well.
On a related note, I'm not sure if not knowing such things is a mark of an amateur tutor, as pointed out in the last line.
I dont think one needs to know what muscles to use to be a good player. I think i play well enough and i dont have a clue about which muscles i am using, but i do know which parts of my body i need to mobilize to play. Happily for me i dont need to be a doctor in anatomy in addition !
About Hanon, i think the article is just stating the obvious which is that if you have a bad mouvement, no matter how much you practice the mouvement will remain bad. That is true of just any physical action. But on the other hand, you do need to practice to improve and perfect a given mouvement, even if correct.
Say what you want, but at age 67 and not having played the piano since I was a teenager, my left hand didn't remember much about 'how to ride the bike'. It is still not as good as my right hand, but has improved tremendously in accuracy and stamina after spending about 20 minutes a day with my ancient Hanon exercise book. BTW, I hated doing Hanon exercises as a teen. Now I am thankful for them. And my personal opinion (not that it matters to anyone) is that the OP is way off base.
Casio PX-S3000 Nope, no issues with it at all. Took lessons from 1960 to 1969, stopped at age 16. Started again in July 2020 at age 67. Lots more fun now!
meghdad - Interesting article in that it is mostly incorrect and begs to be torn to shreds.
I agree with your first sentence: "I'd say he/she is not off the mark about the rules of physics and body anatomy and its importance in correct piano technique." As far as your second sentence goes, kids are more supple than people over 35 or 40. For most people, this becomes more true as time passes, though there are always exceptions. If you're 35+, you probably already know this.
I agree with the part of the article where the author says that ergonomic technique is important. I also think that we need to be vigilant so as not to pick up bad habits. They can slow down progress and cause injury just to name two consequences. But beyond that, I mostly disagree with the author.
Like trooplewis, I was averse to do any exercises as a kid. But now that I'm old, I really appreciate them for finger strength, coordination, finger independence, agility, and the like. Czerny, Hanon, Schmitt, and others are valuable to me for making me a better piano player. I like practicing scales, chords, arpeggios, etudes, etc...
Those books aren't for everyone. But you might find that they are both helpful and enjoyable to you like trooplewis and I do.
Not impressed with that author at all. I hope you won't let that article influence you too much. Method books (in the early stages) and repertoire help with fingers and hands too. But exercises are quite beneficial to many.
Hope that helps,
Stormbringer
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Working on Alfred's Adult AIO Book 2 1970's: Took piano lessons. 2021: This old man is giving it a 2nd go. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Feel The Power>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I think you all are looking too much into the details of his post and ignoring the broad idea that Hanon or whatever exercise by itself is of no value unless you are aware, or are made so, of how and when to use which "generic" area of your muscles and joints appropriately. It's not like "Aha! Now I'll use my middle finger's middle joint!" Take gym for instance, or a high bar. Rather than pulling up and down a high bar with no awareness of which muscles to stiffen and which ones to loosen, your progress could slow down or worse some muscles might get hurt.
I agree though, that exercises are necessary to figure such things out slowly in the long run, but again, being aware of your anatomy and the force, I believe, can prevent possible damages and yield results faster as well.
The best exercises are those that help to discover more efficient technique just by playing them. In fact it's common to find technique just by playing something. But this depends much on individual abilities. There are people who have great physical intuition and people who lack it almost totally. People with good movements coordination, sportsmen and children are better in this.
Traditional Hanon's in C major are not very good for discovering more efficient technique, because there are many ways these exercises can be played, but try to play them in keys with many sharps or flats for a couple of months and I'm sure you will understand valuable things about piano technique from this experience.
I don't understand the necessitiy of exercises. And to be fair, I also don't know what exactly this Hanon exercise is. But it sounds like some finger exercises played on the piano. Each exercise maybe with a specific topic to train a specific skill.
Let's say, there is an exercise for playing octaves with left hand. What is the advantage of a dedicated exercise over just training on a music piece that also contains a lot of octave playing? If I can't play octaves in the beginning, then I isolate only the one hand that does play the octave and repeat until I feel comfortable. And then I add the rest of the music to it, still playing/training those octaves while playing that music.
I also read often, exercises should be used for warming up. I mean, this is piano playing and not ski-racing with a risk of an injury. I would warm up before I do a 100m sprint. I would never warm up before a Marathon run. On a Marathon I start slowly without risking injuries and my muscles get warm from alone while running. And on a Marathon I don't want to waste a single calorie with warming up. I think playing piano is more like a Marathon, I can start slowly. Yes, I miss more notes when I start playing after a day, but it gets better from alone after a few minutes of playing. One could argue, warming up is necessary before a performance in a concert. Agree - but why with a Hanon exercises? Why not warm up with exactly the same music I want to perform?
I don't understand the necessitiy of exercises. And to be fair, I also don't know what exactly this Hanon exercise is.
Pianists use Hanon the same way the football players use drills with sleds. You will never see a sled in a real football game, but the drill over-prepares you to meet a strong opponent. Hanon works the h*ll out of certain exercises like trills, 4th and 5th finger strength and accuracy, not to mention a ton of scales and arpeggios.
Yes, you will find the same situations in classical music as you find in Hanon; but not to the degree and the continuity that you find in the exercise.
No matter what you want to be good at, from tennis to trumpets, there are repetitive drills that hone in on the weakest muscles and the worst coordination points, in an effort to to improve them.
By the way, singers use a vocal version of Hanon (so to speak); if you have ever heard a singer warm up going through scales. The notes are the same as the ones they would find in songs that they sing, but they still see the value in the vocal exercise.
Casio PX-S3000 Nope, no issues with it at all. Took lessons from 1960 to 1969, stopped at age 16. Started again in July 2020 at age 67. Lots more fun now!
I don't understand the necessitiy of exercises. And to be fair, I also don't know what exactly this Hanon exercise is. But it sounds like some finger exercises played on the piano. Each exercise maybe with a specific topic to train a specific skill.
Let's say, there is an exercise for playing octaves with left hand. What is the advantage of a dedicated exercise over just training on a music piece that also contains a lot of octave playing? If I can't play octaves in the beginning, then I isolate only the one hand that does play the octave and repeat until I feel comfortable. And then I add the rest of the music to it, still playing/training those octaves while playing that music.
In a few words, etudes and pieces build more context-dependent muscle memory while exercises build more context-independent muscle memory that can be triggered more easily in a new musical context.
Originally Posted by Wie Waldi
I also read often, exercises should be used for warming up. I mean, this is piano playing and not ski-racing with a risk of an injury. I would warm up before I do a 100m sprint. I would never warm up before a Marathon run. On a Marathon I start slowly without risking injuries and my muscles get warm from alone while running. And on a Marathon I don't want to waste a single calorie with warming up. I think playing piano is more like a Marathon, I can start slowly. Yes, I miss more notes when I start playing after a day, but it gets better from alone after a few minutes of playing. One could argue, warming up is necessary before a performance in a concert. Agree - but why with a Hanon exercises? Why not warm up with exactly the same music I want to perform?
Piano warm-up is not for injury evasion. It's needed to adjust muscular tone and nervous system in general in order to be able to play faster and more precisely. The goal of searching for the most efficient warm-up routine is to be able to reach peak shape as quickly as possible. It's very individual really. I can say that without my warm-up routine I can reach the best shape for that day not earlier than after one hour of repertoire playing. The routine almost halves the necessary time. The best achievable shape varies from day to day, it depends on many factors. Good shape is when you feel like a spring full of energy. I'm aware that many people, especially the younger ones, need less time to warm up. Some people need only 5 minutes.
OK I kind of backtrack. The OP I think too it to extremes to underestimate the value of exercises. However he has a point.
Originally Posted by Sidokar
I dont think one needs to know what muscles to use to be a good player. I think i play well enough and i dont have a clue about which muscles i am using, but i do know which parts of my body i need to mobilize to play. Happily for me i dont need to be a doctor in anatomy in addition !
About Hanon, i think the article is just stating the obvious which is that if you have a bad mouvement, no matter how much you practice the mouvement will remain bad. That is true of just any physical action. But on the other hand, you do need to practice to improve and perfect a given mouvement, even if correct.
Well good for you then. However after I watch a kid play the piano like effortlessly and then watch myself how and when to put my weight on the keys, that's where the question of muscles and physics raises.
The OP did point out something that I don't see anyone here (except Stormbringer) picking up: Finger strength, while what a pianist needs isn't strength at all. And I believe that's the main point the OP was trying to make. The kid who can barely bend my little finger using his 5 fingers can play a fff chord easily which I'd sweat to do.
@Russian guy above and Stormbringer: None of my teachers have pointed out technique development advantage of the Hanon etc exercises, rather the finger dexterity and strength. Not saying that technique isn't a part of the exercises, just that the focus seems to be on gaining finger strength. Same story with Schmit's.
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Playing the piano is all in the arms. The fingers are the conduit between the brain and piano. Hanon can be wonderful if you have an ergonomic technique but, if you have an ergonomic technique, you don't need Hanon.
Basically, what the OP said, and what the whole issue is, can be seen in this video:
The joints,knuckles, which joints to move etc
Hanon or Schmit exercises do not teach that. Yes, they can be viewed as technical exercises for developing musical techniques (which the OP disregarded) but for physical aspect? I'd say no, they're more harmful than not if not done property. Again, the what I quoted above of the OP, is his main point, that exercises like Hanon shouldn't be for developing correct physics and finger shape/strength, unless they are coupled with guidance from a professional tutor.
Well good for you then. However after I watch a kid play the piano like effortlessly and then watch myself how and when to put my weight on the keys, that's where the question of muscles and physics raises.
The OP did point out something that I don't see anyone here (except Stormbringer) picking up: Finger strength, while what a pianist needs isn't strength at all. And I believe that's the main point the OP was trying to make. The kid who can barely bend my little finger using his 5 fingers can play a fff chord easily which I'd sweat to do.
@Russian guy above and Stormbringer: None of my teachers have pointed out technique development advantage of the Hanon etc exercises, rather the finger dexterity and strength. Not saying that technique isn't a part of the exercises, just that the focus seems to be on gaining finger strength. Same story with Schmit's.
I understand your questions. But I think it is not so much a question of which muscles but which mouvements. Strength is something that means different things for different activities. Since I have been climbing for many years I can assure you that finger strength, in its most litteral sense, is something that exists and that you can develop with training. There are no muscles in the fingers but you can reinforce everything else. Thatis what allows you to sustain your full body weight.
Now piano is not rock climbing, so finger strength means something different. It is often a very generic term used to cover a wide number of capabilities. It is not intended to be used literally. But again I can assure you that your ability to use for example the 4t and 5th finger is something that you need to train specifically to develop their "strength". It is not just a question of mouvement or technicality, there is a sheer physical aspect to it. Of course the "strenght" is not about the resistence of the fingers themselves (though some elements of resistance is also part of it), but it is a combination of things that makes you capable of using these fingers independantly and to execute various mouvements which you cant do naturally without training.
Thats what exercices in various forms help you to achieve. By the way there are a number of pseudo teachers or scientists who sell or promote more or less extravagant theories. Sometimes it is mixed up with good ideas as well. It is difficult for a beginner to entangle what is reasonable and what is not.
[quote] P.S I believe that's the reason that kids in general can play the thing effortlessly compared to me and other adult learners in general.
There's the real answer do what works for you and that's what a kid will do. Adults want to complicate things so you have excuses on why they can't do it. Adults ignore everyone is different there is a standard hand, arm, shoulder that every person has. Our muscles are different the number of fast twitch fibers vs slow twitch determine how fast we can play same as it determine the type speciality an athletes will have.
I'm new to piano but have played guitar and bass over 50 years and have been lucky enough to of spent time with a lot of great musicians and teachers. When it comes to technique it always ends with "do what works for you". So trying out some "proper" technique to see if it works for you, but don't try to force yourself into it, if it isn't working experiment and find "what works for you". Try the suggested way, but don't be afraid to say this ain't working let me. Watch yourself play and study your hand or body movement and try things you are your own best teacher.
"do what works for you". [...] Watch yourself play and study your hand or body movement and try things you are your own best teacher.
I disagree. When it comes to a highly technical activity one's natural intuition often runs contrary to the correct movement. For instance, in downhill skiing you have to transfer your weight down the slope for correct balance. Most people have a natural reflex to lean backwards because leaning downhill is scary but doing so is precisely what makes them lose balance. It requires conscious effort to train the correct movement. Piano playing is way more technical than any sport and has many such movements where intuition is not necessarily correct.
@Russian guy above and Stormbringer: None of my teachers have pointed out technique development advantage of the Hanon etc exercises, rather the finger dexterity and strength. Not saying that technique isn't a part of the exercises, just that the focus seems to be on gaining finger strength. Same story with Schmit's.
To @Iranian guy below: It may seem unusual now, but there was a historical period in Russian piano tradition when Hanon's exercises constituted the foundation of student's technical development, and this approach is what a handful of brilliant pianists were grown on, Rachmaninoff included. Let me cite an excerpt from a Sergei Rachmaninoff's interview:
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"It may be interesting to hear something of the general plan followed in the Imperial music schools of Russia. The course is nine years in duration. During the first five years the student gets most of his technical instruction from a book of studies by Hanon, which is used very extensively in the conservatories. In fact, this is practically the only book of strictly technical studies employed. All of the studies are in the key of "C." They include scales, arpeggios, and other forms of exercises in special technical designs.
At the end of the fifth year an examination takes place. This examination is twofold. The pupil is examined first for proficiency in technic, and later for proficiency in artistic playing- pieces, studies, etc. However, if the pupil fails to pass the technical examination he is not permitted to go ahead. He knows the exercises in the book of studies by Hanon so well that he knows each study by number, and the examiner may ask him, for instance, to play study 17, or 28, or 32, etc. The student at once sits at the keyboard and plays.
Although the original studies are all in the key of "C," he may be requested to play them in any other key. He has studied them so thoroughly that he should be able to play them in any key desired. A metronomic test is also applied. The student knows that he will be expected to play the studies at certain rates of speed.
...
Personally, I believe this matter of insisting upon a thorough technical knowledge is a very vital one. The mere ability to play a few pieces does not constitute musical proficiency. It is like those music boxes which possess only a few tunes. The student's technical grasp should be all-embracing."
Regarding "finger strength" it seems to me lately that "finger strength" becomes kind of a banned term in relation to piano playing. I can understand why it is so, because strength building is commonly associated with tension, strain and effort, but in fact the development of muscle strength of muscles of hands and forearms is absolutely required for playing at a high level. It is written in almost every book about piano technique I read, there must be no doubt about it.
