2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
64 members (anotherscott, Boboulus, Bruce In Philly, Animisha, Bostonmoores, brdwyguy, 14 invisible), 655 guests, and 414 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 63
P
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 63
So my wired Bose QC25’s just failed and it’s time to replace them. I use the same headphones for my piano as for my frequent use in airplane cabins, so I’m considering another noise-cancelling pair.

They don’t make the wired Boses anymore, so my question is, can you use a wireless Bluetooth headphone (like the Bose QC35) with reasonable results on a digital piano?

Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,368
A
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,368
Yes they do.


Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,368
A
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,368
Originally Posted by PlsDontShootMe
So my wired Bose QC25’s just failed and it’s time to replace them. I use the same headphones for my piano as for my frequent use in airplane cabins, so I’m considering another noise-cancelling pair.

They don’t make the wired Boses anymore, so my question is, can you use a wireless Bluetooth headphone (like the Bose QC35) with reasonable results on a digital piano?


Bose doesn't make studio-quality I own a QC35 and its output quality is nothing comparable to my Sony MDR-7506.

Also, keep in mind that noise-cancelling ruins the audio signal. There is simply no way to cancel noise without cancelling out the useful portion of the actual audio signal as all of the noise-cancelling methods are approximations of the environment noise.

I bought my QC35 for work and I never use it with any of my keyboards. I wear it for running or workouts. IMHO it is a piece of junk for any kind of music.


Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,564
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,564
I am not convinced by the argument : the noise cancelling system get the noise from microphones, compute what part of the noise would get to the ears and substract it from the audio signal in order to cancel the noise.

It is not perfect : we can’t easily compute what should be substracted exactly, but it should not harm. In a silent room the audio signal should not be altered much. But perhaps one would prefer a low natural noise than an unantural weaker noise.


http://www.sinerj.org/
http://humeur-synthe.sinerj.org/
Yamaha CLP150, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,554
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,554
I own a both a Sony MDR-1000X noise canceling headset and MDR-7506 studio monitoring headphones.

For music listening the NC headset is totally fine, the NC works exceptionally well, even canceling out sudden loud noises like thunder. There is a (pretty quiet) noise floor under the signal, so it obviously doesn't reach the signal to noise ratio of the studio monitoring headphones. However the NC can the disabled, then the headset goes completely quiet.

There is no noticeable latency when the NC headset uses a wired connection.


Yamaha P-515
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 253
J
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
J
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 253
Forget about using any bluetooth headphones - the latency will be absolutely unbearable.

Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,368
A
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,368
Originally Posted by Frédéric L
I am not convinced by the argument : the noise cancelling system get the noise from microphones, compute what part of the noise would get to the ears and substract it from the audio signal in order to cancel the noise.

It is not perfect : we can’t easily compute what should be substracted exactly, but it should not harm. In a silent room the audio signal should not be altered much. But perhaps one would prefer a low natural noise than an unantural weaker noise.

I have a 16 track orchestral-instrumental work that I have mixed and mastered on my 7506s. When I listen to the track on my QC35s, I can't hear the violin sections the way they sound on my 7506s. There is a noticeable loss in the mids and highs.

If I connect my QC35 to my MOTIF XF and listen to the same track, the QC35s sound horrible, similar to dollar-store headphones.

My previous QC35's broke last year and Bose sent me another one for an extra 120-40ish (don't remember). The left driver was blown. A common issue with QC35IIs.

It's impossible that QC35 (mk II, III etc) will ever sound like my 7506s.


Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,564
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,564
Curious, my QC15 sound quite good. I mean by dollar store headphones something like a 30€ Sennheiser HD202... which is clearly inferior.

Surely, I guess my 130€ AKG 702 superior than the QC15 (or the QC35), but I guess it is because the QC15 is not optimised enough as a « normal » headphone pair.


http://www.sinerj.org/
http://humeur-synthe.sinerj.org/
Yamaha CLP150, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,282
K
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
K
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,282
I have the QC35 and I like them a lot, but I never use them for when I'm playing the piano. The cheap cable connection clearly shows they've never been intended to be used other than via bluetooth, and bluetooth just adds too much latency.

I have a pair of Superlux HD681 2x32 Ω which work nicely with my piano. As headphones go, they are cheap, but have decent frequency response specs.

Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 48
P
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 48
Originally Posted by PlsDontShootMe
So my wired Bose QC25’s just failed and it’s time to replace them. I use the same headphones for my piano as for my frequent use in airplane cabins, so I’m considering another noise-cancelling pair.

They don’t make the wired Boses anymore, so my question is, can you use a wireless Bluetooth headphone (like the Bose QC35) with reasonable results on a digital piano?

If you're ok with QC25, then QC35 should be fine. If latency is becomes an issue, you can attach a cable to the QC35, right?

Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 48
P
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 48
Originally Posted by Abdol
I have a 16 track orchestral-instrumental work that I have mixed and mastered on my 7506s. When I listen to the track on my QC35s, I can't hear the violin sections the way they sound on my 7506s. There is a noticeable loss in the mids and highs.

If I connect my QC35 to my MOTIF XF and listen to the same track, the QC35s sound horrible, similar to dollar-store headphones.

My previous QC35's broke last year and Bose sent me another one for an extra 120-40ish (don't remember). The left driver was blown. A common issue with QC35IIs.

It's impossible that QC35 (mk II, III etc) will ever sound like my 7506s.

I don't think it is reasonable to except your QC35 to sound exactly like your MDR-7506.
But the key is, can you hear all the sounds with your QC35?

I did a sound test at the request of a forum member comparing the Sony MDR-7506 and WH1000XM3; there is a difference in sound but all the little details are also present in the WH1000XM3.

https://soundcloud.com/user-919961063/sets/headphone-test

Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 5,750
G
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 5,750
BT headphones and earbuds are getting better each generation for latency, but they're still noticeable, and still a far ways away from being (functionally) instantaneous.

At best they're tolerable, more likely worst much less so.

The thing is, we spend so much time trying to reduce latency whenever we set up a VST or do anything other than play out of the DP's own speakers/sound engine, is it worth messing with it when the best case scenario is that may just be "decent?" If you really just want to have one set of headphones for everything, then maybe you take that chance. But the odds are so high that it'll be distracting/unplayable that most people would just bite the bullet and find a pair of dedicated wired headphones for the DP.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,751
L
2000 Post Club Member
Online Content
2000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,751
I had to write a Bluetooth interface to a device the other day. Losing the connection seems to be typical for Bluetooth. Bluetooth makes one appreciate wires.

Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 63
P
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 63
Thanks for all the great replies, guys! So bottom line...I don’t want a Bluetooth headset on my piano.

I’m also sensing a problem with these Bose headsets—I’m already on my second set of QC25s (replaced under warranty). They’re fantastic for airplanes and fairly good (imho) for my piano, but they seem to have a reliability problem. So now I might need to find something better.

It looks like I should get a high quality wired headset for my piano and another noise cancelling headset for traveling.

Anybody have experience with other noise cancelling headsets, compared to Bose?

Last edited by PlsDontShootMe; 03/31/21 07:02 PM.
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,439
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,439
We're Bose-less over here. If it says Bose it gets a chorus of no's.
Bose is for bass-heads. Not for us. No comparison needed.

Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 68
D
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
D
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 68
Originally Posted by PlsDontShootMe
So my wired Bose QC25’s just failed and it’s time to replace them. I use the same headphones for my piano as for my frequent use in airplane cabins, so I’m considering another noise-cancelling pair.

They don’t make the wired Boses anymore, so my question is, can you use a wireless Bluetooth headphone (like the Bose QC35) with reasonable results on a digital piano?

Unfortunately I can't answer your question, but when I went shopping for Bose headphones, I found the quality of the QC35 sound over bluetooth to be considerably poorer than the QC25 wired sound, and therefore got the QC25. That said, I didn't try the QC35 with a wire, which is an option and might be of interest to you.


2021 Kawai CA99, 1896 Bechstein
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 68
D
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
D
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 68
Originally Posted by Gombessa
The thing is, we spend so much time trying to reduce latency whenever we set up a VST .. But the odds are so high that it'll be distracting/unplayable

Try playing an old pipe organ .. the latency can be unbelievable by the time the key has fired the solenoid that opens the valve and enough air rushes up a 32 foot pipe to make it sound. Sometimes it is easier to listen to the clacking of the keys !


2021 Kawai CA99, 1896 Bechstein
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 6,185
A
6000 Post Club Member
Online Content
6000 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 6,185
Besides the very real latency issue, it's probably not an option anyway, because most DPs don't have bluetooth, or if they do they it be for MIDI rather than audio, or for receiving audio but not sending. Why wouldn't they use it to send audio to headphones? Probably because... latency. ;-)


Moderated by  Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
Pianos - Organs - & Keyboards, Oh My!
My first professionally recorded piece
---------------------
Visit Maine, Meet Mr. Piano World
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
1908 Knabe?
by beginagain - 12/09/21 12:54 AM
Piano lid material?
by Davdoc - 12/09/21 12:49 AM
Thoughts on Technics PR903
by McBuster - 12/09/21 12:46 AM
Kawai VPC-1 or Roland A88 MKII (or FP30X)?
by detektorosradio - 12/08/21 06:03 PM
Birdcage Piano Tuner needed in Virginia
by zander35 - 12/08/21 04:45 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics210,465
Posts3,151,718
Members103,560
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5