2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad) SWEETWATER Cyber Week Deals
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
38 members (ChrisGoesPiano, Dariusz D, AmyBNE, Calavera, cygnusdei, 15 invisible), 522 guests, and 420 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,364
A
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,364
Originally Posted by Pete14
I wonder if a decent computer with the corresponding software/VSTs coupled with two keyboard controllers (one on top of the other) can accomplish the same results as in the video above?

If so, does this not render the Electone obsolete upon arrival?

Please correct me if I’m wrong.

Electone is a template playback machine. Most of the work is carried out by the automation/arranger module. You don't need to know much about the music you're playing and it still is a silly rompler.

One example:
The string section: For a natural string section, one needs each harmony part in a different channel. e.g. Violin I is it's own part, or Celi is its own channel. Why because they need to be played in legato and have portamento. We don't have a polyphonic legato. Even Genos can't do it with its ensemble turned on unless you have multiple tracks and have your string sections properly separated.

If you have MainStage, you can connect many controllers to it and all you need is an arranger module or VST.


Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 3,082
C
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
C
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 3,082
Originally Posted by Pete14
But clothee, I’m talking about using full-fledged controllers with all the sliders, knobs, assignable this-and-that you could think of; I’m not talking about a bare-bones controller like the VPC-1. So the “UI” will be split between ‘computer’ and controller.

Well, you could buy an Electone, open it up, throw away everything you don't need, rewire the knobs, buttons and sliders to interface the computer e.g. via USB and then use the Electone to control some "virtual Electone software".

Or you could just play the Electone. 😉

Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 4,565
P
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 4,565
You guys make a good point, Abdol, Frederic, and clothearednincompo, basically that Pete’s observation is too overly simplistic and that there’s more to “it”; this I accept, being a layman and all, but the one thing you must fully agree with me on is that the whole look and atmosphere around this instrument is so retro-piano-bar-80s that it just makes you wonder, what were they thinking?

I mean, who wants to sit and play a full rendition of “Star Wars”, effects and all, I sure don’t!



P.S.

By the way, Wikipedia is calling Star Wars an “epic space opera”, really?

The Irony is that George Lucas himself has said that this movie was intended for kids, yet now we have people calling it an opera; I assume for “adults”.
It goes to show how only the creator knows the truth:

Yes, we’re all childishly-adults for loving Star Wars (so much for sophistication).

But I digress, and it’s only a matter of time before EVC jumps in to warn new-comers about Pete. grin

Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 63
P
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 63
Originally Posted by Pete14
You guys make a good point, Abdol, Frederic, and clothearednincompo, basically that Pete’s observation is too overly simplistic and that there’s more to “it”; this I accept, being a layman and all, but the one thing you must fully agree with me on is that the whole look and atmosphere around this instrument is so retro-piano-bar-80s that it just makes you wonder, what were they thinking?

I mean, who wants to sit and play a full rendition of “Star Wars”, effects and all, I sure don’t!



P.S.

By the way, Wikipedia is calling Star Wars an “epic space opera”, really?

The Irony is that George Lucas himself has said that this movie was intended for kids, yet now we have people calling it an opera; I assume for “adults”.
It goes to show how only the creator knows the truth:

Yes, we’re all childishly-adults for loving Star Wars (so much for sophistication).

But I digress, and it’s only a matter of time before EVC jumps in to warn new-comers about Pete. grin
Star Wars may be for kids but I think the kid playing that thing was quite talented. Plus she was undoubtedly having a good time, which is the whole point of making music, isn’t it?

Besides, I think sophistication is overrated. 😎

Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 301
R
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
R
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 301
I had a top arranger keyboard, and it can get complicated fast. It's easy to get lost in learning/exploring the many styles and rhythms and lose sight of practicing/playing the piano! If you want your kid to learn piano, best not to present too many options and distractions.

I think the es920 is brilliant for that. Very good action, feels like a real grand piano, and it has accompaniment features. I think they implemented it really well, it's drop dead simple:
- you get 100 styles made up of drums/bass/other accompaniment.
- each style has a variation, so it's not just one pattern repeating itself endlessly
- you can choose to have just drums, or drums plus bass, or drums, bass and accompaniment (like guitar riffing)
- the styles are very pleasing, very musical and well done

Plus the es920 makes it very simple to make recordings (up to 10), very handy!

Otherwise, the fp-90x would likely have similar, easy to use accompaniment features, haven't tried it.

Stay away from the p515. The action would be tough for a young child to learn on.


Randy
Kawai ES110/ES920, Casio CT-X5000
Flute / Alto recorder / Melodica / iPad music apps
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,364
A
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,364
Originally Posted by Randyman
I had a top arranger keyboard, and it can get complicated fast. It's easy to get lost in learning/exploring the many styles and rhythms and lose sight of practicing/playing the piano! If you want your kid to learn piano, best not to present too many options and distractions.

Arrangers are very very simple. Even Genos. You have 8 tracks dedicated to your style and nothing ever gets complicated. Try to use multiple instruments, MIDI commands, sequencers, DAWs, sound design, and VSTs and you'll see what complicated means.

Arrangers have simplistic to none sound design capabilities, simple sequencers, and limited controlling capabilities.

The question is why OP wants an 88-key keyboard with arranger capabilities?


Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 301
R
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
R
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 301
Originally Posted by Abdol
Originally Posted by Randyman
I had a top arranger keyboard, and it can get complicated fast. It's easy to get lost in learning/exploring the many styles and rhythms and lose sight of practicing/playing the piano! If you want your kid to learn piano, best not to present too many options and distractions.

Arrangers are very very simple. Even Genos. You have 8 tracks dedicated to your style and nothing ever gets complicated. Try to use multiple instruments, MIDI commands, sequencers, DAWs, sound design, and VSTs and you'll see what complicated means.

Arrangers have simplistic to none sound design capabilities, simple sequencers, and limited controlling capabilities.

The question is why OP wants an 88-key keyboard with arranger capabilities?

Though I've heard the Yamaha arrangers are simpler to operate than the Korg Pa arrangers like I had, you're still fussing A LOT with learning it, and experimenting endlessly with the THOUSANDS of songs on tap. Have you ever seriously used an arranger? Even the simpler Yamahas have dozens of features and capabilities, all taking considerable time to explore, find your favorites, etc.

And you're dead wrong about the "simplistic sound design capabilities", at least when it comes to the higher end Korg arrangers. Unlike the Yamaha arrangers, the editing is incredibly deep- you've got 24 osscilators/tones? for each single voice, it rivals deep dive synths. Do your homework, you keep on making the same points about arrangers that are oftentimes way off but stated with authority. You have your experience and conclusions, but they are not universal.

I sold my Korg Pa1000 arranger (and used the money to buy the ES920) for exactly the reason I said to the OP: DON'T GET DISTRACTED! Learn to play, put in the time actually practicing instead of fooling with technology. That's why the es920 is excellent for beginner players- enough auto-accompaniment to explore some music styles, but not enough to get lost and distracted with.

And the reason to have arranger capabilities with an 88 note weighted board is entirely personal. I was enchanted with the amazing musical chops the Pa1000 had, top notch studio musicians ready to be my backing band, and just fantastic sounds and speaker quality, thru the roof. But I really disliked the poor 61 note keybed, and really wanted to use all that capability with a weighted action.

Speaking of getting distracted- I need to spend less time on forums and more time just playing!

Last edited by Randyman; 04/01/21 02:26 PM.

Randy
Kawai ES110/ES920, Casio CT-X5000
Flute / Alto recorder / Melodica / iPad music apps
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 24
S
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
S
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 24
Originally Posted by EinLudov
For $800 DGX670 can't be beat on value. It's hard to make the call online, you have to get out there if you're going to spend $1000+. The 670 is as far as I'd go with blind buy.

It seems like the DGX is actually quite a good "in between" with not bad key action for my kid to learn on and also having the fun accompaniment features for me to jam with. Furthermore with a mic input should my daughter would like to sing.


Originally Posted by PlsDontShootMe
Originally Posted by SharpPencil
I guess the thing I am looking for is a "CHEAP CVP". Unfortunately that doesn't exist.
Maybe it does exist. Perhaps you should investigate the used market further, for a used CVP without problems. Despite your experience with your previous CVP 605, Yamahas are usually very reliable.

There is also the possibility of repairing your existing CVP 605. You didn’t describe what the exact problems are, but there is an excellent chance that the keys could be brought back to brand new condition with just a little Yamaha grease and new felt—you can even do this yourself. There are a couple threads here describing exactly how to do this, for about US$80. As for the glitchy screen, the model is recent enough that Yamaha will still have parts available for it, or perhaps the issue is benign enough that you could live with it.

I know most electronics manufacturers have conditioned all of us that their products are disposable and can (and should) only be replaced when they fail, but Yamaha Clavinovas are very repairable. Why not end up with your perfect solution, for less than the cost of your cheapest alternative option?

Unfortunately I realised the one in my parents place is a CVP-309 and not a 605. Being such an old model, I doubt its worth repairing ?

Page 2 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
Pianos - Organs - & Keyboards, Oh My!
My first professionally recorded piece
---------------------
Visit Maine, Meet Mr. Piano World
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Es920 production stopped??
by playplayplay - 12/07/21 12:07 AM
Mehlin & Sons Piano Identification
by LeviWhitted - 12/06/21 08:37 PM
jack position button not present in old grand
by f4tune81 - 12/06/21 08:11 PM
Thinking about recital #65
by stevedoz - 12/06/21 04:28 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics210,420
Posts3,151,118
Members103,539
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5