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Joined: May 2011
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Originally Posted by Jazzgeir
What features are lacking in Pianoteq to use it in a recording setting, IYO?
Sound realism.
Exactly. When you do a recording your want it to sound as close to the real thing as possible, even when you listen carefully with the best audio, e.g. high quality headphones.

On stage, amplification and PAs make for a very different environment, with very different requirements - e.g. clarity of your instrument in a mix, etc.

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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Originally Posted by Jazzgeir
What features are lacking in Pianoteq to use it in a recording setting, IYO?
Sound realism.

It sounds like you think only a sample based piano VST can be regarded as "realisticly sounding"... Realistic piano sound, in my opinion, is the sound you experience from the orchestra seats in the concert hall. Everything else is a product of a million factors, no matter if the sound is sample based or simulated, with ditto subjective aspects thrown in all over the place.

I don't recognize the claim "PianoTeq doesn't sound realistic" at all. I'd understand if it is ruled out by principle, but not by actual, perceived sound.

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Originally Posted by Jazzgeir
It sounds like you think only a sample based piano VST can be regarded as "realisticly sounding"...
It’s not about thinking. I just listen.


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Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
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I agree. I usually don't comment on these topics, as I'm not interested in VSTs, but every time I hear a performance on Pianoteq, whether it's Phil Best, Wim Lassche or somebody else, I think somethink like "Wow, what an artificial piano sound". Especially the middle-upper register. Cold, metallic, empty, lifeless, synthetic.

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Originally Posted by 9190
somethink
* something

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Originally Posted by Harpuia
A little OT but could you share your presets for Studio Grands? I'm not able to tweak that VST to my liking......

I managed to get screen shots of the three main settings views for my currently preferred Steinway B preset. Right now I don't have any Bösendorfer settings that I find good enough to share.

These settings make the Steinway B sound a little bit like an upright with overly hard hammers. Possibly not the most beautiful, but highly realistic.

Please note that the velocity curve is VERY important, and it is tuned to my Roland FP-30, so it may fit or not fit other digital pianos, all depending on their touch.

The settings can be seen here:

Settings for Steinway B


Roland FP-30, Roland E-28
Galaxy II Grand piano collection, Synthogy Ivory II Studio Grands, Production Voices Estate Grand, Garritan CFX Lite, Pianoteq 7.0 (Blüthner, Bechstein DG, Grotrian, Steinway D, K2)
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Thanks!


Piano: 1982 NY Steinway Model B, Yamaha AvantGrand N3X
VST(preference in order): VSL Synchron Pianos, Vienna Imperial, Garritan CFX, VI Labs Modern U, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq
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OP, have you decided yet? (I briefly browsed through and didn't see, so I apologize if I missed it). Lately, I have fallen in love with the Synchron Bosendorfer Imperial. I like their new Bosendorfer too, but the room sound is just so wonderful on the Imperial. I think it sounds the most realistic of all the virtual pianos I've heard.

Incidentally, I had to make a recording for a lesson today, so here is what it sounds like. This is using the full version with condenser, tube, and room decca tree mono (center). It sounds way better with additional mics, but this is all I can get away with for doing a live stream on YouTube. Forgive my poor playing... I'm only about a year in.

Last edited by Tozen; 03/30/21 10:21 PM.
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Things are going very well with the VSL D-274 piano.

In case anybody was wondering what it sounds like, here's a pre-edit sample track of a very slow "ballet adagio" selection.

The use will be in a ballet classroom for the beginning of technical training, so it needs not to sound like a concert stage, resonant without reverb, and give the listener a clear rhythm and consistent tempo (otherwise, I'd play this piece rather differently.)

In settings, I started with the "Intimate" setting, pulled down the room mix, and turned up the condenser very slightly. I softened the velocity curve so the keys don't play quite so jumpy (normally you would not find a concert grand in a ballet classroom).

Still futzing around with it, but I think I'm happy! We did start recording last Monday and have almost 22 tracks recorded of 30.

https://soundcloud.com/opusinprogressu/nocturne-in-e-flat-major-center-adagio-1-44-64cts

[Linked Image]

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Originally Posted by Tozen
OP, have you decided yet? (I briefly browsed through and didn't see, so I apologize if I missed it). Lately, I have fallen in love with the Synchron Bosendorfer Imperial. I like their new Bosendorfer too, but the room sound is just so wonderful on the Imperial. I think it sounds the most realistic of all the virtual pianos I've heard.

Incidentally, I had to make a recording for a lesson today, so here is what it sounds like. This is using the full version with condenser, tube, and room decca tree mono (center). It sounds way better with additional mics, but this is all I can get away with for doing a live stream on YouTube. Forgive my poor playing... I'm only about a year in.

I did make a decision! I went with the D-274.

I loved the Bosendorfer Imperial sound, too! It was a hard choice.

Very authentic sounding in your setup!

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Originally Posted by TwoSnowflakes
Still futzing around with it, but I think I'm happy! We did start recording last Monday and have almost 22 tracks recorded of 30.

https://soundcloud.com/opusinprogressu/nocturne-in-e-flat-major-center-adagio-1-44-64cts
Congrats, sounds wonderful!


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Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
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Originally Posted by 9190
I agree. I usually don't comment on these topics, as I'm not interested in VSTs, but every time I hear a performance on Pianoteq, whether it's Phil Best, Wim Lassche or somebody else, I think somethink like "Wow, what an artificial piano sound". Especially the middle-upper register. Cold, metallic, empty, lifeless, synthetic.

Like I when I hear a Yamaha upright ?
It really depends on what you like, we all know that. Your cold metallic is another persons clarity of tone, a singing bell, their wet mush is your warm mellow vibrancy etc. We should celebrate the differences in music.


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Good choice on the d-274, it has became my favorite (vsl) vst. I don't think there's anything out there that sounds more authentic.

Did you try a "hard" type of velocity curve? For me this is necessary with the d-274 to get access to the lower velocities and the full dynamic range.

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Originally Posted by U3piano
Good choice on the d-274, it has became my favorite (vsl) vst. I don't think there's anything out there that sounds more authentic.

Did you try a "hard" type of velocity curve? For me this is necessary with the d-274 to get access to the lower velocities and the full dynamic range.

I suspect that the choice of velocity curve, in the VST, depends on what physical keyboard you're playing.

The physical keyboard has its own "physical key velocity to MIDI velocity" map -- and they're not standardized across brands, or actions.

The VST velocity curve, _and_ that built-in physical keyboard curve, determine how the VST sounds, as you change playing dynamics.


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Wow, that sounds great! I think you made the right choice.

Originally Posted by TwoSnowflakes
Things are going very well with the VSL D-274 piano.

In case anybody was wondering what it sounds like, here's a pre-edit sample track of a very slow "ballet adagio" selection.

The use will be in a ballet classroom for the beginning of technical training, so it needs not to sound like a concert stage, resonant without reverb, and give the listener a clear rhythm and consistent tempo (otherwise, I'd play this piece rather differently.)

In settings, I started with the "Intimate" setting, pulled down the room mix, and turned up the condenser very slightly. I softened the velocity curve so the keys don't play quite so jumpy (normally you would not find a concert grand in a ballet classroom).

Still futzing around with it, but I think I'm happy! We did start recording last Monday and have almost 22 tracks recorded of 30.

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Originally Posted by Charles Cohen
Originally Posted by U3piano
Good choice on the d-274, it has became my favorite (vsl) vst. I don't think there's anything out there that sounds more authentic.

Did you try a "hard" type of velocity curve? For me this is necessary with the d-274 to get access to the lower velocities and the full dynamic range.

I suspect that the choice of velocity curve, in the VST, depends on what physical keyboard you're playing.

The physical keyboard has its own "physical key velocity to MIDI velocity" map -- and they're not standardized across brands, or actions.

The VST velocity curve, _and_ that built-in physical keyboard curve, determine how the VST sounds, as you change playing dynamics.

Your right, I forgot about that. That said, my experience is the d-274 needs a "harder" type of velocity curve compared to other vst's.

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Originally Posted by TwoSnowflakes

Sounds great! I can't wait until I can play at your level. smile Enjoy your new instrument, and congrats on the progress you have made so far on the recording!

On the subject of velocity curve, I agree that a harder curve seems to benefit these instruments well. I use a program called VelPro to tune my velocity curve for the Bosendorfer Imperial, and without it, I think I would be horribly missing out on what VST has to offer.

Last edited by Tozen; 04/09/21 11:59 AM.
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