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From Qyantum Leap, there are big velocy layer gaps in the Bechstein which makes it frustrating while playing : we play near a threshold and half the note are loud, the others weak. It is a pity, I really liked the tone.


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Originally Posted by navindra
Agreed -- Pianoteq does not fit the bill here -- "real authentic acoustic sound".

Incidentally, I don't think Garritan CFX does either.

Even though Garritan CFX is massively playable and sounds good, the samples are apparently noisy and wet... this is not what you want for producing a professional recording.


Just jumping in here, partly because the OP mentioned leaning away from Garritan, and I wanted to see if I could nudge her back towards it :-)

First, I just did a recording of Clair de lune (for my own pleasure, definitely not professional), and for a quiet piece with lots of chording and sustained notes, if there was noise build up, I couldn't hear it.

Second, the sound *can* be very wet if you want it to be, but one of the great myths of Garritan is that the wetness is 'baked in'. Through lowering the volume of the ambient mic and shortening release times/reducing volume of release samples, it can actually be very dry.

Third, the commentary about demos is worth heeding. I initially decided against Garritan because I thought the demos were just awful sounding.

In any case, OP, if you're used to the sound of a Clavinova, I imagine you're going to be delighted whether you go for VSL, Garritan, or something else! I think I've liked every one of the instruments suggested that I've played, even...Pianoteq (which is wonderful but I'm not sure how it would fare in such an exposed recording).

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Originally Posted by CraiginNZ
Just jumping in here, partly because the OP mentioned leaning away from Garritan, and I wanted to see if I could nudge her back towards it :-)

First, I just did a recording of Clair de lune (for my own pleasure, definitely not professional), and for a quiet piece with lots of chording and sustained notes, if there was noise build up, I couldn't hear it.

Second, the sound *can* be very wet if you want it to be, but one of the great myths of Garritan is that the wetness is 'baked in'. Through lowering the volume of the ambient mic and shortening release times/reducing volume of release samples, it can actually be very dry.

Third, the commentary about demos is worth heeding. I initially decided against Garritan because I thought the demos were just awful sounding.

In any case, OP, if you're used to the sound of a Clavinova, I imagine you're going to be delighted whether you go for VSL, Garritan, or something else! I think I've liked every one of the instruments suggested that I've played, even...Pianoteq (which is wonderful but I'm not sure how it would fare in such an exposed recording).

Interesting.

I am not used to the Clavinova, by any stretch. It's just that the original recordings were made by sticking a cable into the side of the Clavinova they had; I was not on board at that time. I joined the team to start releasing some more CDs and when I did the first project I used a Kawai VPC1+Cubase+Synthogy Ivory II American Concert D.

I don't really care for the sound on the original CDs. I don't even really care for the sound on the CD I made.

This next CD I will also be playing. We split the tracks up between us. Plus a great big fun showpiece four hand waltz!

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Originally Posted by TwoSnowflakes
Originally Posted by johnlewisgrant
I use Hans Zimmer Piano for virtually all my classical music, but a new and inexpensive route for classical is the “Signature” Grand, which produces recordings that have the “spatial” realism of modern solo classical piano CDs. Extremely convincing. My Bach WTC Book 1 at SoundCload uses HZP. But I also put up a short demo of the Signature Grand. URL is in my signature at the below.

HZP Bach:

https://soundcloud.app.goo.gl/7z6ZPye2ipBU54hZ6

Signature Grand:

https://soundcloud.app.goo.gl/LXvSTwmRg4BHcnNm6

Those are GORGEOUS. I had no idea how far the technology had come!

Oh boy. I have some choices to make.

Spitfire are not known for piano software. They don't mention anything about support of re-pedaling and half-pedaling which is a common thing of many sampled piano libraries - supporting re-pedaling and half-pedaling requires very advanced scripting and Kontakt is not the first choice. All these libraries sound gorgeous and I agree this particular Bach WTC recording is involving but Bach can be played even without sustain pedal. Just be careful.

Last edited by CyberGene; 03/26/21 04:04 PM.

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I own the Ivory II ACD and quite liked it for awhile. I "upgraded" to the Garritan CFX and from day one it always did feel like an upgrade. Effort is needed to get it sounding its best but it seems that when it's optimal you can be quite satisfied with the end result. There have been a few posters that share very high quality recordings when using the Garritan.

I am also interested in the VSL Steinway mostly because I want to try another Steinway. The price is still holding me back along with the uncertainty of standard vs. full libraries. For your purposes the Garritan has no dongle and a lower price. It's a tough decision but it seems that you will do well with either VSL or Garritan. Having never used the VSL, I can't give a serious review but only say that the Garritan is still working out for me.

EDIT:

Another difference that I'm not sure I saw mentioned is the system requirements. Your system is probably able to run either but if I'm not mistaken some of the VSL are quite resource heavy compared to the Garritan. With the system I'm currently running, the software is reliable enough that I use it live for my lessons on Zoom. Maybe either can do that for you but it seems like another thing to keep in mind on the subject of playability.


Originally Posted by TwoSnowflakes
Originally Posted by CraiginNZ
Just jumping in here, partly because the OP mentioned leaning away from Garritan, and I wanted to see if I could nudge her back towards it :-)

First, I just did a recording of Clair de lune (for my own pleasure, definitely not professional), and for a quiet piece with lots of chording and sustained notes, if there was noise build up, I couldn't hear it.

Second, the sound *can* be very wet if you want it to be, but one of the great myths of Garritan is that the wetness is 'baked in'. Through lowering the volume of the ambient mic and shortening release times/reducing volume of release samples, it can actually be very dry.

Third, the commentary about demos is worth heeding. I initially decided against Garritan because I thought the demos were just awful sounding.

In any case, OP, if you're used to the sound of a Clavinova, I imagine you're going to be delighted whether you go for VSL, Garritan, or something else! I think I've liked every one of the instruments suggested that I've played, even...Pianoteq (which is wonderful but I'm not sure how it would fare in such an exposed recording).

Interesting.

I am not used to the Clavinova, by any stretch. It's just that the original recordings were made by sticking a cable into the side of the Clavinova they had; I was not on board at that time. I joined the team to start releasing some more CDs and when I did the first project I used a Kawai VPC1+Cubase+Synthogy Ivory II American Concert D.

I don't really care for the sound on the original CDs. I don't even really care for the sound on the CD I made.

This next CD I will also be playing. We split the tracks up between us. Plus a great big fun showpiece four hand waltz!

Last edited by Pathbreaker; 03/26/21 05:49 PM.
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Originally Posted by TwoSnowflakes
So we record ballet class CDs, and have 8 released CDs, which do very well in sales, and on Spotify/iTunes. The first 7 were done using whatever came out the side of the Yamaha Clavinova they used to record them (I was not involved.) The next one I recorded with Synthogy's Ivory II American Concert D.

It's fine, but I still crave real authentic acoustic sound as the music is all classical. Anything out these days that I could use as a VST in Steinberg Cubase that would get me even closer? We're recording this upcoming week, and I wouldn't mind investing in a new virtual instrument to make this new CD. Budget would be something in the sub-$500 level.

Macbook Pro+Cubase+Kawai VPC1

I listened to your Vintage D nice work
While the Vintage is easy on the ears and ‘rich’ it’s a bit unsophisticated and the players perspective panning is bad to be stuck with

My vote is for VSL, the standard with the Decca mics at the tail and the 2 audience mics will give you a-lot of benefits and it sounds better than all the other choices you’ve been considering

my 2 cents

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I just read about the requirement for this to be a sound that’s not too heavy on reverb and concert hall ambience since it will be played in ballet rooms.

This is an ideal case for Gartitan CFX Lite IMO. It costs only $79 and can be refundef AFAIK. It’s the same as the full version except for lacking the distant mics that add a very deep concert hall sound.

Besides, it’s very lightweight. I used to use it on a very underpowered MacBook with the lowest latency without a single glitch.

If you decide to try it, make sure you apply my re-pedaling fix: http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...rove-garritan-cfx-repedaling-timing.html

Last edited by CyberGene; 03/27/21 04:01 AM.

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I recorded a waltz CD. Most of the tracks were recorded on my acoustic grand in small ensembles, but I really liked my performance on a draft track using the internal sounds on my Kawai ES8. So that’s what’s on the opening track. Sounds just fine to me.



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Quote
If you decide to try it, make sure you apply my re-pedaling fix: http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...rove-garritan-cfx-repedaling-timing.html

Why hasn't Garritan applied your fix? Seems so short-sighted of them.


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Originally Posted by EPW
Why hasn't Garritan applied your fix? Seems so short-sighted of them.

And why haven't they released a new piano? frown

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I think Gartitan CFX is now an abandonware, they don’t update it and don’t support it anymore. Seems like Gartitan as a whole is not very active lately. That being said, CFX is still a capable and competitive piano.

Last edited by CyberGene; 03/27/21 11:15 AM.

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^ You might be right as Garritan's latest news post on the website is back almost 2-years ago.


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Originally Posted by navindra
Agreed -- Pianoteq does not fit the bill here -- "real authentic acoustic sound".

Incidentally, I don't think Garritan CFX does either.

Even though Garritan CFX is massively playable and sounds good, the samples are apparently noisy and wet... this is not what you want for producing a professional recording.

Pianoteq 7 does not fit the bill? What does "real authentic acoustic sound" mean, really? The Pianoteq software does not use sample libraries, no, but does that really mean that the sound is less "real authentic"?

I have used Pianoteq for a couple of years now on a VPC-1, on different stages, and it has worked like a charm on every single occasion. I'm using the Blüthner grand in different setups to match the stage rooms. I have been listening a lot to recordings from mixer tap, and it sounds 100% real and authentic to my ears... And most importantly, it *feels* like playing a real instrument. I have yet to find any discrepancy between playing this instrument and a real one in terms of piano effects.

It'd be nice if the action became lighter when you press the damper pedal, though... ;-)

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I went with VSL Synchron Concert D-274 Full.

Let's see how it goes.....

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Originally Posted by QuasiUnaFantasia
Since no one else is suggesting the Ivory II Studio Grands, I'll do so. They may not be able to touch Garritan and VSL for sheer beauty, but they are second to none in being realistic, as far as I am concerned. The flip side is that they require a lot of tinkering, before they sound both fairly good and very realistic. Out of the box they are ... challenging.

A little OT but could you share your presets for Studio Grands? I'm not able to tweak that VST to my liking......


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Originally Posted by Jazzgeir
I have used Pianoteq for a couple of years now on a VPC-1, on different stages...

On stage and recording (discussed in this thread) are two very different applications, and involve very different requirements for (virtual) acoustic pianos... smile

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Originally Posted by TwoSnowflakes
I went with VSL Synchron Concert D-274 Full.

Let's see how it goes.....

That's awesome! I hope to hear your recordings and feedback on the experience. If it were me I think I would also go with the full.

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Originally Posted by maurus
Originally Posted by Jazzgeir
I have used Pianoteq for a couple of years now on a VPC-1, on different stages...

On stage and recording (discussed in this thread) are two very different applications, and involve very different requirements for (virtual) acoustic pianos... smile

I agree, but when your hastily set up stage performance sounds like polished studio work, I'd think that it should work for both.

What features are lacking in Pianoteq to use it in a recording setting, IYO?

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Originally Posted by Jazzgeir
What features are lacking in Pianoteq to use it in a recording setting, IYO?
Sound realism.

Last edited by CyberGene; 03/29/21 03:45 AM.

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Originally Posted by Harpuia
Originally Posted by QuasiUnaFantasia
Since no one else is suggesting the Ivory II Studio Grands, I'll do so. They may not be able to touch Garritan and VSL for sheer beauty, but they are second to none in being realistic, as far as I am concerned. The flip side is that they require a lot of tinkering, before they sound both fairly good and very realistic. Out of the box they are ... challenging.

A little OT but could you share your presets for Studio Grands? I'm not able to tweak that VST to my liking......

I don't mind doing that, but please don't sit up waiting for it; I have to figure out how to upload images to PW first.


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