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#3089458 03/05/21 07:54 AM
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Can anyone give an estimate on what % Piano Dealers will give:

I know there is no 'exact' percentage, but wondered if there is an 'AVERAGE'

Say 5 - 8% by most dealers.

Just like a car dealer - they start chopping off percentages to get you enticed to purchase!

again - is there an AVERAGE one can expect to have reduced?

brdwyguy


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brdwyguy #3089471 03/05/21 08:48 AM
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While piano pricing is flexible to some degree, there is no "Average discount" that you should anticipate.

Check PianoBuyer.com (and Larry Fine's excellent books) for a detailed look at piano pricing (new and used). On the Piano Pricing tab you can look up the MSRP's and Pianobuyer's "SMP's" (suggested maximum prices). Beyond that, I suggest reading his article About Piano Prices and doing your research on your local market and other dealers, check out going prices on pianomart.com, eBay, etc. to get an idea of what comparative prices may be for a piano you are considering. It always helps to be an informed buyer. But there is no general discount that you should expect going into a potential deal.

Last edited by Pianosearcher; 03/05/21 08:49 AM.
brdwyguy #3089472 03/05/21 08:48 AM
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% of what?

On what?

Where? (Downtown Manhattan or suburb of Toledo)?

New or used?

At what price?

Cash or credit card?

What kind of dealership? (Online? Warehouse? Chandeliered showroom? Tuner selling out of his basement?)

Competition?

Owned inventory?

How long in stock?

I could go on for quite a while....


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brdwyguy #3089473 03/05/21 08:49 AM
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This article from Piano Buyer(see free link in top of the left column) is, I think, the best article about new piano pricing.
http://www.pianobuyer.com/article/introduction-to-acoustic-piano-brand-profiles-models-prices/

The percent you mentioned is generally way too small to be considered good, especially if it's off MSRP.

brdwyguy #3089481 03/05/21 09:22 AM
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It's an impossible question. Where I live, for example, two of the dealers charge MORE than PianoBuyer has listed. Another one takes a small % off, even if a piano has been sitting there for 5 years. Another dealer is more in line with what PianoBuyer suggest, making some pianos waaaay below MSRP, but others not that much below.

All I can tell you, for sure, is that anyone who buys a Kawai where I live will pay way more than prices people have posted on this forum. smile


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thank you pianoloversrus

i notice I always get a very sort of non-comment answer when its from a dealer
one does get the feeling - they don't really want the consumer to know that information

Rich Galassini is one of the few that always give a straight forward answer - I know, I trust him, having dealt with him.
He is SUPER!
wink

Last edited by brdwyguy; 03/05/21 11:46 AM. Reason: additional info added to post

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SonatainfSharp

no it is NOT an impossible question

I could see if I asked "Is there a particular % that most dealers give"

but I asked is there an 'average' or 'range'!

Last edited by brdwyguy; 03/05/21 11:51 AM.

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brdwyguy #3089538 03/05/21 12:15 PM
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Ok in 1992, In a very naive time of my life.
I walked into a reputable piano dealer just to see what Grand Pianos were like ( i was only 28yo)
As my piano teacher once said - one day you will sit down in front of a piano and know this is 'the one'.
That happened, there was a newly traded in 6' 1" Schomacker Grand sitting on the showroom floor and I played it
and thought I adore the 'action' 'feel' of this piano - it was a bit bright but in those days I liked that.

I bought the piano ------ and never had the idea of negotiating with the dealer on the price!
To this day, as I have learned more and more about pianos, I know now that he basically over-charged me for that piano.
I paid $4600 in 1992 for a used piano brand that is not all that famous.
The best part was, that piano had just come in that week and only been tuned slightly - the dealer didnt put any cost into it yet.

Yes I was lucky that i got a piano that was a very nice piano. I was lucky but I can see how easily it can be to be taken advantage of. That will never happen to me again. I will NEVER assume that is the final price of the piano! How many of you would walk into a store and pay exactly the price that is on the sticker?

smile


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brdwyguy #3089548 03/05/21 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by brdwyguy
Ok in 1992, In a very naive time of my life.
I walked into a reputable piano dealer just to see what Grand Pianos were like ( i was only 28yo)
As my piano teacher once said - one day you will sit down in front of a piano and know this is 'the one'.
That happened, there was a newly traded in 6' 1" Schomacker Grand sitting on the showroom floor and I played it
and thought I adore the 'action' 'feel' of this piano - it was a bit bright but in those days I liked that.

I bought the piano ------ and never had the idea of negotiating with the dealer on the price!
To this day, as I have learned more and more about pianos, I know now that he basically over-charged me for that piano.
I paid $4600 in 1992 for a used piano brand that is not all that famous.
The best part was, that piano had just come in that week and only been tuned slightly - the dealer didnt put any cost into it yet.

Yes I was lucky that i got a piano that was a very nice piano. I was lucky but I can see how easily it can be to be taken advantage of. That will never happen to me again. I will NEVER assume that is the final price of the piano! How many of you would walk into a store and pay exactly the price that is on the sticker?

smile

This is why my wife and I have to buy expensive things together. I don't like dealing with salespeople (although people who know me think the opposite because I put on a great extroverted show when I need to), so I just pay the price and run, even though I know I got screwed. It's worth it for me to get out of there. My wife, on the other hand, doesn't give a crap and will make salespeople uneasy in their skin and get prices down so low that I can't fathom how she does it (she learned this from her dad, although his tactics are a little over the line for reasons I won't get into here).


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2017 Charles Walter 1500 in semi-polish ebony
1991 Kawai 602-M Console in Oak
brdwyguy #3089549 03/05/21 12:34 PM
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There is not a particular % that most dealers give. Steve Cohen is referring to the variety of business models as well as special circumstances that cause the % to vary wildly. "No" is a direct answer to your question.

The Piano Buyer article is good but refers generalizations about street prices spread over a variety of markets. It does not delve into negotiation strategy which is how I read your question. For some stores, making a big show of deep discounts requires starting high. For other stores, a more everyday low price strategy fits their style so any final negotiations will be minimal. The information from Piano Buyer lets you know if you've landed in the right area where the customer is getting an obtainable discount while the dealer is likely to make at least a sustainable profit.

In our market, when we joined the retail side over 2 decades ago, high starting prices and wild variations in negotiated prices were the norm. Many pianos were sold at much higher profit margins, so our model of pre-negotiated prices was a very different experience for customers. I think our model had some influence on other local dealers, but a greater influence was the long recession when deep discounts became the norm. Manufacturer's were most responsible for increased prices in the last several years, not dealers. In the last year with COVID affecting the supply chain, discounts were affected because of supply. It became a choice for some customers between waiting or paying for what is available. This was most noticeable for us for popular digital piano models. Prices didn't go up, but some of the freebies and throw-ins disappeared. It's hard to give free headphones with purchase if you are backordered 3 months for headphones.

Finally, there is no organization tracking market sales, so there is no data to support the opinions expressed here. Over the years, I've read many stories shared about prices paid. Some raise eyebrows and when pushed for facts, reveal some of the special circumstances mentioned above. It doesn't mean it's a good deal or bad deal, just not always representative of what most customers could expect.


Sam Bennett
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brdwyguy #3089556 03/05/21 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by brdwyguy
SonatainfSharp

no it is NOT an impossible question

I could see if I asked "Is there a particular % that most dealers give"

but I asked is there an 'average' or 'range'!

Yes, you're absolutely correct it is possible to answer this, and the answer is generally accepted as:


about 20% off





....



25% more than they are prepared to sell at :-)

and which might by coincidence also be within 10% or so of 20% off SMP.

Last edited by gwing; 03/05/21 12:47 PM.
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Thank you Sam!
that all makes sense

BTW - congratulations on the work PianoWorks did on that 1896 Steinway Model A!
saw the video on YouTube and I have to say - I believe that is probably one of the BEST Sounding Instruments I have ever heard.



Piano Works did a MASTERFUL job on this piano and oh I wish i had the money to contact that seller and offer them whatever they would want for that piano. It truly is Spectacular!
BTW - who is the pianist! Very very moving.

brdwyguy

Last edited by brdwyguy; 03/05/21 01:17 PM.

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brdwyguy #3089567 03/05/21 01:26 PM
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THANK YOU SO MUCH gwing


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brdwyguy #3089573 03/05/21 01:42 PM
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Thank you, brdwyguy. The owner of that Steinway A is a Steinway artist that commissioned it from us rather than rebuilding her Steinway L. It was a dream for her, so I don't think she's taking offers. wink

The pianist is Derek Vann. Yes, very talented and thankfully willing to participate in our demonstrations. He is a member of our staff and a piano teacher as well.


Sam Bennett
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brdwyguy #3089574 03/05/21 01:46 PM
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It may not be an impossible answer (average piano dealer discount) but a difficult answer, at best.

As Sam Bennett mentioned earlier, the reported prices paid for various pianos, both new and used, can vary widely, and wildly. I do remember a thread here once about "Prices Paid". Not sure how long the momentum lasted in that thread, but I'm sure it could be searched and found, for reference. But that info could be tainted because prices rise over time, usually, and hardly ever recede.

That said, I think it is still basically a "song and dance negotiation" process that goes on between buyer and seller/dealer. I know Sam mentioned a more "structured" pre-negotiated model, but I'm not sure how many dealers follow that model. I know some of the "new-age" auto dealers have a similar model (firm price, no negotiations).

I think it is the responsibility of the potential buyer to do as much research as possible to get an idea in their own mind what "might" be a fair and equitable price for a certain model piano.

As gwing mentioned, 20% might be a good "average", when no other solid info is available, other than speculation.

I know this is apples and oranges here, but someone else mentioned auto dealers/sales; my late dad, being a GM employee and retire for many years, was able to get the GM employee discount on new GM vehicles, which included family members. Initially, the GM employee discount was pretty good, at roughly 18% off MSRP. As the years passed by, that 18% shrank more and more each year, depending on the model vehicle purchased. Now, the GM employee discount averages about 8% to 10%, depending on the model purchased, but could also include other incentives or discounts, or not. The last new GM vehicle I purchased, (2018) the regular end-of-model-year GM discounts, along with the dealer discounts/incentives, the price on the vehicle was actually lower than the GM employee discount, which I didn't use because it was not the best price option. This is just speculation on my part, but chances are, anyone can go to a GM dealer and likely negotiate a price on a new vehicle equivalent, or at least close, to the GM employee discount.

To some people, price really doesn't matter, and to some people, on a tight budget, it matters a lot. You just have to go with what you think is the best deal on the best piano you can buy within your budget.

Just my .02, at a discount. smile

Rick


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THANK GOD - it's not just sitting in someone's living room as a pretty/beautiful piece of furniture.
I'm sure that owner understands how beautiful and rare that instrument is!

I would call that - 'The Creme de la Creme of Steinways" just my opinion tho!

Last edited by brdwyguy; 03/05/21 01:51 PM.

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brdwyguy #3089583 03/05/21 02:04 PM
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The one dealer downtown Vancouver will give at the most 10% off the SMP. This is on most of his brands .( complains about people wanting a discount if you ask. The other dealer gives about 25 % off most brands except Steinways. One may have to wait however for special times for these prices to go down .The Steinways pianos of course do not have discounts,.While with Petrof pianos the price is set high but one usually always gets a good discount immediately. ( from what I hear )

Last edited by Lady Bird; 03/05/21 02:05 PM. Reason: spelling
brdwyguy #3089633 03/05/21 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by brdwyguy
thank you pianoloversrus

i notice I always get a very sort of non-comment answer when its from a dealer
one does get the feeling - they don't really want the consumer to know that information

Rich Galassini is one of the few that always give a straight forward answer - I know, I trust him, having dealt with him.
He is SUPER!
wink
Rich is the best. ❤️


Lisa

Playing RCM 7-8 repertoire
Cunningham Studio Grand & Yamaha CLP645

"I tell my piano the things I used to tell you." - Frederic Chopin
ebonyk #3089644 03/05/21 05:26 PM
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I'll 2nd that Lisa!

I hope you got to meet him in person?


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gwing #3089673 03/05/21 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by gwing
Originally Posted by brdwyguy
SonatainfSharp

no it is NOT an impossible question

I could see if I asked "Is there a particular % that most dealers give"

but I asked is there an 'average' or 'range'!

Yes, you're absolutely correct it is possible to answer this, and the answer is generally accepted as:


about 20% off





....



25% more than they are prepared to sell at :-)

and which might by coincidence also be within 10% or so of 20% off SMP.

Off what?


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Contributing Editor & Consultant - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Family Owned and Operated Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.
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