2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad) Piano Sight Reading
train piano sight reading with your iPhone or iPad
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
34 members (antune, 36251, aphexdisklavier, beeboss, 1957, accordeur, Beowulf, CharlesXX, Arjen B, 4 invisible), 380 guests, and 419 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 62
G
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
G
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 62
Hello,

I am currently trying to weigh the positives and negatives between these two options
1.A used grand in very good mechanical condition, with all the original parts.
2. An old grand which has been rebuilt, purchased directly from a person who rebuilds and sells 80-100 ish year old pianos from the finest brands as his trade.

An advantage to a rebuilt piano is that I can get it cheaper than a comparable 20-40 year old one that's been well maintained.
So a Mason&Hamlin or Steinway might actually fit my budget if I'm looking at rebuilt ones.
At least it seems to be the case.

A disadvantage is that I have no way to know if the rebuilding job was done well enough to ensure the piano lasting me multiple decades. (Maybe he didnt drill the new pinblock perfectly for example and it will fail in a couple years).

On a used piano with original parts at least I know the job was done properly before it left the factory

Thoughts?

Thanks

Last edited by GnGEmpire; 03/01/21 12:32 PM.
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,316
G
1000 Post Club Member
Online Content
1000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,316
I don't think there is a generic answer to this question, either piano could be the better condition one depending on how much wear they have had and how good the restoration job was. Look at them all, try them all, find the one you like the most and then get that checked out by an independent tech to make sure it is still good.

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,294
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,294
Originally Posted by GnGEmpire
An advantage to a rebuilt piano is that I can get it cheaper than a comparable 20-40 year old one that's been well maintained.
You can? I am looking at the site of a very high-end rebuilder in my area right now...looks like he only rebuilds S&S, not M&H...

Let's see...his rebuilt S&S go for $30,000-65,000. His used S&S "in great condition" for for $10,000-32,000, with one current exception around $42,000. That makes the rebuilds quite a bit more expensive.

But, I guess it depends on who rebuilds pianos. I only know of two people who rebuild pianos in my area. For one, that is the primary thing he does. For the other, he is my tech, and I don't think he is rebuilding anything anymore; I never really asked him.

As far as knowing if someone is a good builder...I assume a lot of people here will know pretty much everyone who rebuilds, so someone here can probably tell you! Not sure how people feel about sharing actual names of people in the industry, though.

I am very curious to see what other people have to say for sure!


I do music stuffs
Yep, I have a YouTube channel!

Current:
1998 PETROF Model IV Chippendale
LEGO Grand Piano (IDEAS 031|21323)
YAMAHA PSR-520

Past:
2017 Charles Walter 1500 in semi-polish ebony
1991 Kawai 602-M Console in Oak
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 62
G
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
G
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 62
Unlikely they would know this specific rebuilder as I do not live in the U.S or in a country where rebuilding is even a popular thing (he's the only rebuilder in my country I'm aware of).
Most sellers here import containers of used Yamahas from Japan

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,294
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,294
Originally Posted by GnGEmpire
Unlikely they would know this specific rebuilder as I do not live in the U.S or in a country where rebuilding is even a popular thing (he's the only rebuilder in my country I'm aware of).
Most sellers here import containers of used Yamahas from Japan
Ah, sorry. I didn't realize you were outside of the US. Silly of me!


I do music stuffs
Yep, I have a YouTube channel!

Current:
1998 PETROF Model IV Chippendale
LEGO Grand Piano (IDEAS 031|21323)
YAMAHA PSR-520

Past:
2017 Charles Walter 1500 in semi-polish ebony
1991 Kawai 602-M Console in Oak
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 107
P
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 107
Unfortunately there is no really good answer to this general question. Inspect the piano(s) yourself and if, after that, you are still interested, engage your own technician to evaluate the piano(s). It would be a mistake to rely solely on statements, assurances or even the 'reputation' of a seller or rebuilder.

1. A used grand in very good mechanical condition, with all the original parts. How would you know? And even if they are all original parts, are they in good condition? I recently looked at a piano that fell into this category. Turned out the hammers needed to be replaced, the bass end of the pinblock was clearly weakened, there was some loss of crown in the soundboard and it needed a top-to-bottom regulation & voicing. But it was in good mechanical condition and had all the original parts!

2. An old grand that has been rebuilt. How well rebuilt and is the rebuilder trustworthy? I recently looked at a rebuilt Steinway B; beautiful piano, played nicely. The rebuilder told me the action was all new with "original manufacturer" parts and that the soundboard was cleaned up & resurfaced. But it all looked too perfect for a 75 year old piano no matter how well it was rebuilt. And then I caught that the serial number on the piano was newly stenciled and was identical to the s/n on another Steinway B that I found elsewhere.

Last edited by Pianosearcher; 03/01/21 01:32 PM.
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 100
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 100
Hi GnGEmpire,

Nice thing about a rebuilder is that you can ask him what he replaced. You can also ask him if anything he didn't replace might need replacing any time soon.

Furthermore, you can express your concerns about any part of the a piano of his that you are considering.

Good luck


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Casio PX-870
Working on Alfred's Adult AIO Book 1
1970's: Took piano lessons. 2021: This old man is giving it a 2nd go.
Posture, Technique, Dynamics, Articulation, Metronome, and Practice Daily
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 29,690
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 29,690
It's very difficult to answer your question. I think there are some inconsistencies and inaccuracies in your post.
1. A 20-40 year old piano would often be cheaper than a newly rebuilt similar piano although it's certainly possibly that things are different in your country compared to the U.S.
2. A used piano can have defects just like a rebuilt piano can although it is true that most major defects, if any, show up within the first few years. There is no guarantee that on a used piano with original parts you know that the job was done properly before it left the factory. If that was the case, there would never be any warranty claims on new pianos.
3. It may be hard to find a used 20-40 old piano in very good mechanical condition, especially at the latter end of that time period.
4. A rebuilt piano generally comes with a warranty so that, as per your example, if the pinblock fails you would be covered.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 03/02/21 09:49 AM.
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,294
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,294
Originally Posted by Erik Beginner
Hi GnGEmpire,

Nice thing about a rebuilder is that you can ask him what he replaced. You can also ask him if anything he didn't replace might need replacing any time soon.

Furthermore, you can express your concerns about any part of the a piano of his that you are considering.

Good luck
The rebuilder where I live gave me a tour of the shop and had three examples in progress, so he was able to tell me, in immense detail, what was going on with each one, the techniques used for each thing that was being done to each of them, and even let me touch a few things!


I do music stuffs
Yep, I have a YouTube channel!

Current:
1998 PETROF Model IV Chippendale
LEGO Grand Piano (IDEAS 031|21323)
YAMAHA PSR-520

Past:
2017 Charles Walter 1500 in semi-polish ebony
1991 Kawai 602-M Console in Oak
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 100
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 100
SonatainfSharp - That would be very useful and fun. I'm going to see if I can't set up a tour in the near future.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Casio PX-870
Working on Alfred's Adult AIO Book 1
1970's: Took piano lessons. 2021: This old man is giving it a 2nd go.
Posture, Technique, Dynamics, Articulation, Metronome, and Practice Daily
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 12,472
Platinum Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Platinum Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 12,472
Remember that when you are buying a "restoration" (I use that term because many will assume rebuild means a complete re-manufacturing, including soundboard, bridges, keyset, etc.) you are buying the experience and the expertise of the person doing the work. Becoming a high level rebuilder cannot happen in a vacuum. The best rebuilders constantly educate themselves, inteface with others who are high level, and enjoy some mutual support.

I only say this because it sounds like this person is isolated. This does not necessarily mean his work is not good, but I do think you should approach with caution.

My 2 cents.


Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila Area
(215) 991-0834 direct
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Learn more about the Matchless Cunningham
The Science Channel on our piano restoration

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Couch to Concert Hall
Couch to Concert Hall
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Help for a cheap backup digital
by Bellicapelli - 04/21/21 04:42 AM
Korg C1 and G1 line-in mod.
by OU812 - 04/21/21 03:30 AM
metal tuning pin bushings
by Key Surfer - 04/20/21 11:50 PM
Anderszewski WTC II selections live
by wr - 04/20/21 10:48 PM
Rhythm question regarding Schumann Op. 76/2
by hawgdriver - 04/20/21 10:32 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics206,438
Posts3,084,781
Members101,254
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5