2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad) Piano Sight Reading
train piano sight reading with your iPhone or iPad
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
49 members (CodySean, brdwyguy, accordeur, CaseyVancouver, 10 invisible), 460 guests, and 432 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
#3087533 02/27/21 09:36 PM
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 13
M
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
M
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 13
Greetings! New here.

I have a Yamaha P-120 that we bought new back in 2002/03 for our kids piano learning. It held up through that and my son still uses it occasionally. It did not have the keybed replacement done (somehow we didn’t get that memo), but worked perfectly until a few years ago. My son did a Youtube repair procedure on a few sticky keys (the pivot points break off, but can be reglued fairly well).

Now I’ve had the urge to learn (rank beginner!), and ran into some sticking keys again. Repeated the procedure - this time had the bright idea to move the reglued cracked keys to the far ends of the keyboard where they see less use.

My impression - the sound is pleasant. The key action feels very heavy - I checked with pennies and it’s over about 75g on the middle keys. There is no sticking, but I find playing “p” is tough - sometimes don’t sound a note at all, no matter how I set the sensitivity. Possibly just my skill level. This will clearly work for my beginner purposes until it either breaks again or we move next year (I’d rather not move it with me).

I'm trying to decide whether it is worth it to get it properly repaired, or whether perhaps others might find a slightly broken P120 worth salvaging. I’ve heard it is still well-regarded. Even if I get another piano at some point, I don’t want to send it to the landfill.

What do you all think of these pianos compared to current generation under $1k digital pianos (Roland FP-30(x), Casio PX-S…, Kawai ES110, Yamaha P-125)? I think this piano is actually more the equivalent of a P-515, but tech has advanced since then.

Thanks!

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,239
C
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
C
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,239
Quote
. . . What do you all think of these pianos compared to current generation under $1k digital pianos (Roland FP-30(x), Casio PX-S…, Kawai ES110, Yamaha P-125)? I think this piano is actually more the equivalent of a P-515, but tech has advanced since then.

I think you're giving the P-120 too much credit, compared to the current crop of entry-level DP's. 20 years is a _long_ time, when you're looking at digital electronics.

The P-515 has a better action, better sound generator (better samples, longer decays, string resonance, . . . ), a little more power --

. . . and it's not 20 years old, with key-hinges that have reached the
. . . . end of their lives.

The "GH" action in the P-120 isn't bad (it lasted Yamaha until the P-255, I think), but I doubt that it's as good as the NWX action in the P-515. (I have test-played the P-515, and liked it.)

I haven't played a P-120 next to a current entry-level Roland/ Casio/ Kawai/ Yamaha DP. The technical comparisons might be a little closer, but I know I'd pick the fairly-new DP over the 20-year-old one.

Don't let nostalgia cloud your judgement, or your estimate of the P-120's market value.


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13
M
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
M
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13
The action on the P-120 is called Graded Hammer action. Yamaha abbreviates this as GH. The GH action was a flagship action on their best keyboards from about 1998-2005 or so.
GH is on the P models 60, 80, 90, 120, 140, 155, 200, 250 and 255.
The problem with the keys-gone-bad is typical of earlier GH keyboards, hence the recall.
The way you are dealing with it is the way I've dealt with it on my 250...
I also have a P-90 from 2005 which has not given me any problems.

The GH action is heavier. Some people hate it...I like it. There is a 4 position TOUCH button...try messing with that.
All the older P series mentioned above are held in high regard. The P-90 is my favorite...
Best sound engines on the 80, 90, 120 and 250 (IMO)...at least 64 note polyphony on all. The 120 does have a great Rhodes sound.
A shop would probably replace the individual keys.

You can get keys (used I think- maybe new) at a site called Syntaur...The have a LOT of parts.
They do have an entire new GH action assembly available, but it's around $600!!! ordered from Yamaha.
Or keep your eyes peeled for any parts-only keyboards above ...they all have the same action.

If that's not to your liking, then check out others...I'm only familiar with the GH action.


Yamaha P-90, P-250, Bunch of synths, Logic ProX
DIY enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 179
H
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
H
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 179
Hello,

Let me offer you a few thoughts:

A good digital piano indeed doesn't produce a sound when playing a key very, very softly. This is true for an acoustic piano as well: played too softly, there just isn't enough energy for the hammer to hit the string. So this is a good thing and helps you in developing your skill.

The key weight you found would be very high. My Roland keybed is considered one of the heavier ones at 60--65 grams. I perfectly like it that way, but feel that's about the limit.

Your P120 and Yamaha's P515 are actually worlds apart. The P515 is a very capable instrument with much, much better key action and sound generation. It is not below $1k however.

Chances are you'll like the P125 by Yamaha, I almost bought that one myself for I much liked its sounds and found the keyboard not stellar but quite doable. However when I discovered the plastic-hinged key construction, similar to what you found in your piano, that put me off. But this may not be a deal-breaker for you.

I'd also hate to see an instrument go to a landfill, environment-wise and sentiment-wise. If you decide to step up to something new, I'd suggest finding someone who would like to use it for parts, handing it in for proper electronics recycling (at least we have that in our country, I'd hope in Virginia as well), or just keep it as a treasured memento, which I could very much relate to as well.

Maybe this post I wrote earlier to help someone else gives you an idea of how I see some of the other pianos you asked about:

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...hoosing-a-digital-piano.html#Post3081576

Hope this helps!

Cheers,

HZ

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,785
M
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
M
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,785
I've had two P90s, still have one. They are great work horses and I agree the touch is pretty heavy. I've made a few minor repairs on mine over the years, but wouldn't put money into it since I only paid $300 used about 10 years ago. My friend has an ES-110 that I play a lot at his house, I really like the touch better than my P90 or the current P-125. I like the Rolands too but haven't played them as much and haven't played Casio at all. I think you'd be better off spending the $700ish for either the ES110, Casio or Roland depending on which you like best. I would guess if you advertised the P120 in its current condition you'd get $100 from someone who needed it for parts.

Last edited by MarkL; 02/28/21 09:43 AM.

Yamaha P90, Kawai GL-10
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 13
M
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
M
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 13
Thanks all for your thoughtful replies!

This is leading me to think I should eventually upgrade to a newer DP and look for a buyer (cheap!) for the P120.

Cheers!

Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 304
J
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
J
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 304
I'm a long time owner of a P-120 that I bought in 2002 that I replaced last year (still have the P-120 though). I did the keybed replacement back in around 2004 but I have had problems with a few keys after that and have replaced a couple of them. I can't really say if the durability is worse than some other DP actions but I don't think I would spend money at this time for repairs on the P-120. I don't think you can put malfunctional keys on other places where don't play that much due to the action being grades and the keys are different in different zones of the keybed. I do however think It's a very good piano and I still think the playability is really great.


"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 13
M
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
M
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 13
Originally Posted by johanibraaten
I don't think you can put malfunctional keys on other places where don't play that much due to the action being grades and the keys are different in different zones of the keybed. I do however think It's a very good piano and I still think the playability is really great.

I take your point about repair cost. As to the keys, the plastic keys are separate from the weights and can be moved around (as long as you keep C on C, etc). The keys are literally just hollow plastic shells that pull out. Strangely, the keys do have different part numbers embossed on them, but measuring with a caliper showed no difference, so I went with it - seems to work just fine and the weighting is still as before.

Are you having any thoughts about how to move along your P-120? I suppose Craigslist for cheap or free might work, assuming COVID has died down.

Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 304
J
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
J
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 304
Originally Posted by MoltoDiletante
I take your point about repair cost. As to the keys, the plastic keys are separate from the weights and can be moved around (as long as you keep C on C, etc). The keys are literally just hollow plastic shells that pull out.

Oh, I see. Thats good to know, thank you.

Originally Posted by MoltoDiletante
Are you having any thoughts about how to move along your P-120? I suppose Craigslist for cheap or free might work, assuming COVID has died down.
I think I'll keep it. My new piano isn't portable and I think it can be good to have a piano on the go:)


"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13
M
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
M
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13
I'd take it off your hands...downside is packing and shipping to Chicago...That could be as much as $100...but worth it to me.

Also...when you move keys around you are only moving the plastic covers, not the whole weighted assembly. The covers are moveable.

Notes not playing is usually a case of cleaning the contact pads...a job in itself...

It's like owning an old car...if you want it, you have to do the maintenance...


Yamaha P-90, P-250, Bunch of synths, Logic ProX
DIY enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 13
M
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
M
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 13
Originally Posted by mike_h
Notes not playing is usually a case of cleaning the contact pads...a job in itself...

Thanks! That is another useful piece of info. Although I suspect it is a case of learning to strike just hard enough- it’s usually fingers 4 and 5 and not consistently any specific key.

Also, I’ll keep you in mind. Still sitting on this decision for a while.

Cheers!


Moderated by  Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Couch to Concert Hall
Couch to Concert Hall
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Recommend me a trouble-free Garritan CFX computer!
by Gombessa - 04/21/21 08:12 PM
Which one do you like - ABRSM vs RCM??
by Pikka - 04/21/21 06:35 PM
Sauter o Bechstein
by Luis Miguel - 04/21/21 05:57 PM
Pricing information for new Steinway/Yamaha?
by lct14558 - 04/21/21 04:10 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics206,455
Posts3,085,112
Members101,266
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5