Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Is it worth connecting external speakers to a Clavinova?

Hello -

Has anyone salvaged the sound coming from their digital piano's internal speakers by adding external ones instead? My Clavinova sounds beautiful through headphones but the internal speakers are a horror show in comparison: tinny, weak in the bass, cramped, just ugly really [model CLP-270].

It's so nasty that I use my headphones 99% of the time, which creates it's own problems when trying to learn to balance the hands, use the sustain pedal properly, etc.

I've got an amplifier and I was thinking of getting some decent second-hand speakers to use instead, as an external alternative. Has anyone done this and found that it made a big enough difference to be worthwhile? The CLP-270 has AUX IN and AUX OUT. I'm guessing I just connect the speakers to the amp and then the AUX at the back of the amp to the AUX OUT on the piano using the red/white jack plugs?

Ideally I'd get an acoustic piano as well but it's just not possible at the moment so I'm trying to make my Yamaha more user-friendly...

Thank you

Yes, I have. And, yes, it makes a big difference.

I use a typical home theater amplifier (Pioneer VSX-24TX) with some nice speakers.

The home theater amplifier makes lovely sounding music when I play my CDs through it, so I figured it would do the same for my digital piano. It does.

Some experienced members here have commented that the quality of the transducer (the actual round speaker inside the speaker box) is supremely important to making good sound. I have confirmed this for myself with an actual experiment. So, I believe your greatest potential for sound improvement will come from the employment of high quality speakers. I am talking about home theater/ home hi-fi type speakers.

Where I am at, there was a recent glut of great, high quality speakers on the used market. I suspect it was from people trying to sell off their stereo or hifi systems that were replaced by their new Christmas acquisitions.

I would avoid the ever-popular-around-here studio monitors. They are not designed for making beautiful sounds. They seem to be designed to provide a very sterile sound, stripped of nuance, so that the sound engineer can clearly distinguish one sound from another as he/she decides exactly how to mix multiple sounds into a final composite sound package. I tried for two years to get an enjoyable sound from studio monitors, and never succeeded.

If you enjoy the sound of your home sound system when you play your favorite piano CD, then pursue that sound. Your headphone experience tells you that there is a high quality sound inside the Clavinova. All you need do is give it an equally high quality sound reproduction system. Trust your ears, and the hifi systems that feed them.

I tried that shortly after buying my CLP240 in 2008. Try and try again ... without good results.

If the original sound is poor (and it was!) there's nothing a sound system can do to make it sound like a proper piano.
Then I discovered virtual instruments. That fixed the problem.

@Ralphiano: Wolfpaw's piano is a CLP270, not very different from my CLP240. So I think my answer applies.
You didn't say what piano you use. It must be much newer and better than either of those.

@Macmacmac, but wolfpaw said he likes the sound through headphones. Perhaps a good pair of speakers would render quite close to what he likes with the headphones.

(My perception is different : with the previous generation, CLP150, AWM sound generation too, I have switched from the internal sound to VST while using the piano mostly by headphones).

I am a bit surprised because the CLP270 was the top of Clavinova in 2005, then it should have a decent amplification and speakers. To get a better speaker set, perhaps 8” speakers (Yamaha HS8, Presonus Eris E8, Adam T8V, anything in « 8 »...) is needed.

I’m not a fan of monitors atop a cabinet; this destroys the aesthetic appeal for me.

It would be better to sell the aging cabinet and buy a ‘slab’; these, conversely, look great alongside monitors; not to mention that you could save 15% or more by switching to GEICO.

Thanks for the feedback.

I think one of the problems is that the headphone reproduction is so good that it probably makes the internal speakers sound worse than they are, in comparison. If I'd never used headphones at all then perhaps I wouldn't be so critical of the results without them [although I find its sustain pedal horrible to use anyway].

I've got a 5.1 surround sound system that I don't use with a DVD/amp plus a subwoofer, big left/right side speakers and some little ones. I can connect to the TV but how would it connect to the Clavinova?

Most pianos have line output jacks. I presume your Clavinova does, too.

I presume that your 5.1 sound system has line inputs?
Back in the day they'd be labelled CD, DVD, etc. Now they might be called AV1, AV2, etc.

Connect the piano line outputs to the A/V line inputs. Simple.

Yes, there's AUDIO IN with red and white sockets. So the red/white AUX OUT on the piano goes into the AUDIO IN red/white in the surround sound amp. I don't want to blow anything up [I need to get some red/white jack plugs/leads too. Will report back once I've tried it out)

Just turn down the volume so you don't blow your ears off

probably yes, builtin sound systems in digital pianos are usually very low quality

I've been playing it this evening without headphones. There's a particular area in the treble range, from middle C upwards for a couple of octaves where it just sounds harsh and metallic [more than I like anyway]. Also, I use way too much weight on the keys and they seem to respond totally differently compared with the sound through headphones. So my playing sounds even worse than usual. It's a bit depressing really. It's made me realise how much I can get away with using headphones...

It's annoying as I don't enjoy playing it at all without headphones but I know that using headphones all the time isn't actually doing anything to improve my playing. So I'm sort of stuck.

Anyway, I got the surround sound stuff down from the loft and I found red and white RCA cables that I'd forgotten I had. I got it all set up and, oh...the DVD/amp part of the surround sound system is no longer working. It's Samsung and I just get a sort of hexagonal symbol with a diagonal line through it on the display [a bit like a stop sign] when I turn the power on. It stays like that for a second or two and then the unit automatically reverts to standby. I've no idea what's wrong with it.

So it looks like I might be looking at trying the speaker option instead at some point. The CLP-270 was an almost top of the range model when it was first released but it's pretty old now. It would be nice to try a new one and see what improvements have been made.

The CLP270 is AWM based : some velocity layers and no blending. Then the timbre change abruptly with the velocity. With newer pianos, since CLP4xx, layers are blended then the tone change smoothly.

Since the CLP5xx, the CFIIIS is replaced by a CFX and a Bösendorfer. I prefer this change, but it is also a matter if taste. If you prefer brighter pianos, you may regret the CFIIIS.

In my opinion, the answer to the OP’s question is yes.

Studio monitors can make a very big difference in sound quality, particularly if they have software which help to optimize poor room acoustics.

And ultra-near field monitors can help decrease the influence of room acoustics if they are positioned close to your ears

@JJHLH : Do you enhance the sound of the N1X when switching a « spatial sampling » sound sent on 6 speakers to a stereo 2x2 drivers ?

I’m sorry Frederic but I’m not sure I understand your question.

Currently about 75% of the sound comes from the monitors and about 25% comes from the N1X speakers. Not sure exactly how that arrangement came to be but I prefer it to either the monitors alone or the N1X alone.

@JJHLH : thanks for the answer. I haven’t think about using both set of speakers. I suppose the N1X good for basses (with a 16cm / 6” speaker) and your monitors for tweeters.

It can, depending on how you have it hooked up and to what sort of speakers/system.

First off, use the regular stereo audio outs, whether 1/4 inch or RCA (hifi) It must go out stereo.

Even if you use a dedicated mono out from the unit, you will get what is called a summed output, meaning combining the L and R signals into one mono signal. Any time you do that you produce what is called phase cancellation, which degrades the signal. Even a great stage piano will not sound as good when sent mono. Of course if you only use the L or R alone, you're only getting half the picture.

It is possible that the speakers on your Clavinova might be a mono signal, while the headphones are stereo...more what it really sounds like. Check to see if the piano amp is mono or stereo...

Second, you must use a dedicated stereo EQ with separate L/R settings for the piano alone. EQ settings for the lower (L) section will be a bit different from the higher (R) section. Like if you want more "bite" in the low end, but a smoother high end.

A home stereo might be fine for amplification, depending on it's fidelity.

Good powered studio monitors or good powered stage monitors would sound best. They don't have to be huge.

One setup I have is a Yamaha P-250 (slab) with speakers. I hooked up a set of small Yamaha stage monitors, sitting on the floor. Each has an 8 inch woofer and a tweeter. They are more than enough power.
I still use the piano speakers for a touch of high/mids, and the monitors reinforce the "body". Then it's fiddling with the EQ until you get want you want.

If all you have is a headphone out, you could use that, but get a cable that will turn the stereo out into separate left and right plugs.

There's an un-explored possibility:

. . . If the original sound (the output from the sound generator =
. . . . . what you hear over good-quality headphones) is good,

. . . a good sound system _can_ reproduce that sound accurately,
. . . and it'll sound as much "like a proper piano" as it does through
. . . headphones.

I was quite surprised when I plugged my PX-350 into a Yamaha StagePas 300 PA system (300 watts, 8" woofers, horn-loaded tweeter):

. . . it sounded _way_ better, than it did through its own speakers.

However, the PX-350 sound generator had a problem the PA system couldn't fix:

. . . . The sounds had a too-short sustain time.

Which is what pushed me into the VST world -- I needed Pianoteq (or some other VST) to fix that problem.

A hi-fi system is worth trying; a pair of powered monitors is worth trying. If what you learn is that the sound generator isn't as good as you think --

. . . don't say you weren't warned.

On another topic:

One of the common problems with people learning on DP's is that they pound the keys. That gives a harsh tone -- especially in the midrange and treble.

To practice _not_ pounding the keys (which will give you a gentler tone), you'll have to turn up the Volume control on the DP. The CLP-270 has 160 watts of amp output, which is _a lot_. So try this:

. . . Set the Volume control to about 3/4 up the scale;

. . . Unplug the headphones, listen through the speakers;

. . . Listen to the volume of sound, when you play;

. . . Plug the headphones in;

. . . Adjust the Volume so that the sound is about as loud through the
. . . headphones, as it was through the loudspeakers, when you play.

Have fun, welcome to cobbled-together DP's --

The volume control advice was useful, thanks. Using headphones I had the volume at about 50%, which I think is probably much too quiet so I've adjusted it to be louder.

I'm going to try using the Technics amplifier I've got with some speakers sat on top of the piano case, one each end. If I use the L/R AUX OUT sockets for the speakers, will I still get sound coming out of the internal speakers or will it mute them as it does when I plug in headphones?

I thought I wanted to add monitors to my Casio, but was disappointed with the first set, tried a keyboard amplifier, was REALLY disappointed with that. Neither sounded as good as the factory speakers, they just weren't loud enough for my taste.

Ended up just changing the Key Touch to a lighter setting, and presto, now I have all the volume my piano room can handle. I can get even more volume by changing the Concert Piano setting to Bright, but it is actually too loud and I love the way the primary Concert Grand sounds on my keyboard, so that is where I keep it.