2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad) Piano Sight Reading
train piano sight reading with your iPhone or iPad
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
50 members (CaseyVancouver, Akaitsuki, brdwyguy, Buzz209, 36251, c++, accordeur, 9 invisible), 524 guests, and 446 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 9
I
ianm333 Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
I
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 9
Hi all,

I just recently got an N1X, and have been enjoying it so much that I may trade up to the N3X. But I have a couple concerns.

It's been years since I've messed with VSTs or even MIDI, but I plan to really dive back into that world. I've also got a Kurzweil Forte and Korg Pa4X I'll be adding to the mix, along with a Mac running Band-in-a-Box and a probably a slew of piano and orchestral VSTs.

My understanding is that the N1X has USB Audio capabilities which the N3X lacks, and I'm very curious how my particular use-case might be hampered by "upgrading." For instance, are N1X owners able to play piano VSTs like Garritan CFX piano over USB MIDI and have audio streamed back into the N1X's speakers via that same USB cable? I would obviously vastly prefer that to using that ridiculous Aux In mini-plug, but I'm not sure I completely understand how it all works, and whether it works well, without too much latency, etc.

So I'd love to hear any input from owners, particularly those using VSTs. I'm quite content with the two main pianos on the N1X, but it's really the potential I see as a master controller is what has me excited about the AvantGrand. I'd hate to take one step forward and two steps back with the N3X.

Thanks for reading!

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 8,924
8000 Post Club Member
Offline
8000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 8,924
Judging by many folk's experience and the posting below this at time of typing, be warned! it can suck time, money, patience and your sanity day by day. I only have Pianoteq thank goodness; but it's driven me crazy at times.
It's all behind me now; I hit the sweet spot with 5 out of 7 pianos, which in itself is ludicously extravagant.
A single Kawai k200 or 300 would suffice but (shrug) but things ain't what they used to be now. Some homes aren't piano friendly and your neighbours may live in them.
It'll be interesting to hear others opinions on this but it does seem that whatever we have, it's never enough.
Good luck in your endeavours!

Last edited by peterws; 02/27/21 03:43 PM.

"I am not a man. I am a free number"

"[Linked Image]"
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 401
J
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
J
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 401
With the N1X you can play piano VST’s like Garritan CFX and Pianoteq over USB and have the sound steamed back into the N1X’s speakers. It’s a simple matter of plug and play due to the N1X’s built in audio interface.

The N3X has better speakers, but you could apply the significant difference in price and purchase a pair of really good studio monitors and speaker stands for the N1X.

The two pianos look very different and have a different footprint of course, so that may be the main consideration.

I believe the action is identical or nearly so on both.


Yamaha N1X, P-515.
Genelec 8331 monitors and 7350 sub.
VI’s: Garritan CFX, VSL Bösendorfer Upright, and VSL Blüthner 1895. Pianoteq.
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 9
I
ianm333 Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
I
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 9
Thank you, I've been chasing the perfect digital piano for decades now, and it's a never-ending quest (not unlike guitar). But it's a fun quest, and we're making some good progress. smile

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 9
I
ianm333 Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
I
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 9
Originally Posted by JJHLH
With the N1X you can play piano VST’s like Garritan CFX and Pianoteq over USB and have the sound steamed back into the N1X’s speakers. It’s a simple matter of plug and play due to the N1X’s built in audio interface.

The N3X has better speakers, but you could apply the significant difference in price and purchase a pair of really good studio monitors and speaker stands for the N1X.

Thanks much, this is precisely my thinking. In fact, I've already got the N1X hooked up to Adam A8X monitors and a 12" sub. After arranging and balancing everything, it's sounding pretty durn great. I'm very used to playing my Kurzweil through ONLY those monitors, so I'm loving having a central array of speakers for piano.

And I'd like to keep that same speaker arrangement with Pianoteq and Garritan, so it's sounding like the N1X would be better. I wonder how N3X users are getting around that, and if the mini-plug is a realistic solution. My gut tells me it's not, with noise introduction alone.

Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 50
T
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
T
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 50
I don’t know if this is a silly question, but if you want to be able to play loudly, why not get an acoustic? I don’t see the point of the hybrids unless you have to use headphones or live in a very piano unfriendly climate. Or would that end the fun of endless upgrades? wink

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,582
E
EPW Online Content
1000 Post Club Member
Online Content
1000 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,582
@TomW123 Logic has no place here wink


All these years playing and I still consider myself a novice.
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 572
B
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 572
I’ve tried streaming audio through USB as well as aux in. With a ground loop for aux in, I don’t feel a difference in the quality of audio through the speakers.


Yamaha AvantGrand N1X
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 9
I
ianm333 Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
I
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 9
Originally Posted by Beowulf
I’ve tried streaming audio through USB as well as aux in. With a ground loop for aux in, I don’t feel a difference in the quality of audio through the speakers.

Thanks, that's very useful to know. I do wonder why the N3X can't stream audio through USB, as it looks to have both a USB-to-Device port, as well as a USB-to-Host port. But if there's a manageable workaround, it may be moot.

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 9
I
ianm333 Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
I
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 9
Originally Posted by TomW123
I don’t know if this is a silly question, but if you want to be able to play loudly, why not get an acoustic? I don’t see the point of the hybrids unless you have to use headphones or live in a very piano unfriendly climate. Or would that end the fun of endless upgrades? wink

Did I post this to the wrong forum? I thought I'd posted to the digital piano section...?

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,582
E
EPW Online Content
1000 Post Club Member
Online Content
1000 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,582
@ianm333 it is okay. Just that some wonder when you want to play at high volume you don't go acoustic route. I totally understand as I live in a house and I still would get a new digital piano as the few times I can play it loudly wouldn't be worth it to me. Everyone has there priorities smile


All these years playing and I still consider myself a novice.
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,582
E
EPW Online Content
1000 Post Club Member
Online Content
1000 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,582
By the way welcome to Pianoworld!


All these years playing and I still consider myself a novice.
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,169
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,169
I have a N1X and it works equally with USB (Audio+MIDI) and analog audio+MIDI DIN5. (And I have ground loop noise if I try USB and analog audio).

Then I guess the N3X could work well with analog audio + MIDI DIN5 (with a Steinberg UR22 for example).

Note : the UR22 has higher latency than its competitor Focusrite 2i2... but this one lack a MIDI adapter.

Last edited by Frédéric L; 02/27/21 05:55 PM.

Yamaha CLP150, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 9
I
ianm333 Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
I
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 9
Originally Posted by EPW
By the way welcome to Pianoworld!

Thanks! I've actually had an account for 10 years, but dormant I guess. wink

I've been playing acoustic piano for 40+ years and electric/digital for 30. There are myriad reasons why I chose a hybrid over an acoustic, but volume really isn't one of them (with my monitors, the N1X can be much louder than I require). I picked a hybrid because for my uses (more than strictly piano), its versatility makes it flat out superior in innumerable ways. I've been playing so long now (many years playing in bars and restaurants), that I grow bored with a single piano quite quickly. wink

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 9
I
ianm333 Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
I
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 9
Originally Posted by Frédéric L
I have a N1X and it works equally with USB (Audio+MIDI) and analog audio+MIDI DIN5. (And I have ground loop noise if I try USB and analog audio).

Then I guess the N3X could work well with analog audio + MIDI DIN5 (with a Steinberg UR22 for example).

Note : the UR22 has higher latency than its competitor Focusrite 2i2... but this one lack a MIDI adapter.

Thanks much, that's very useful information. I happen to be using a Focusrite Scarlett 18i20, which does have MIDI 5-pin sockets. Figuring out how I'd route everything with an N3X is making my head swim a bit. lol I wish Yamaha would update the N3X with the USB capabilities of the N1X. :-/

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,168
1000 Post Club Member
Online Content
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,168
For the money just keep N1X and buy a Kawai NV10, then you'll really have two different pianos. A N3X action and samples are the same as N1X.


AG N2 | ES 110 | REFACE CP | GK MK & MP amps
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 9
I
ianm333 Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
I
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 9
Originally Posted by 36251
For the money just keep N1X and buy a Kawai NV10, then you'll really have two different pianos. A N3X action and samples are the same as N1X.

A fair point, but the NV10 just didn't grab me for some reason. I did briefly contemplate adding a CVP809 to the N1X, but cooler heads thankfully prevailed.

My Yamaha dealer said the action on the N3X is (very) slightly different from the N1X, though I haven't read anything online to confirm or deny that. It definitely felt better, but that may have been just the placebo effect of improved keytops and sound.

But I agree...it'd be an awful lot of money to just pay for extra speakers and a larger cabinet, especially if I'll lose USB Audio in the bargain. I'd like to verify whether the action is identical in every way.

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,806
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,806
I think the N3 runs external VIs only in 2 channel stereo, which might not sound optimal given the wonky speaker configuration. I would guess Yamaha has some multi-channel processing for internal sounds.

I suppose you could rewire the N3 internal speakers and adjust the speakers how you like (PianoTeq has 5 channel audio with adjustability in the UI. You could run several channels on some other VIs). Never saw anyone try and I think it would be tougher to optimize than it is for two monitors.

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 9
I
ianm333 Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
I
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 9
Originally Posted by newer player
I think the N3 runs external VIs only in 2 channel stereo, which might not sound optimal given the wonky speaker configuration. I would guess Yamaha has some multi-channel processing for internal sounds.

I suppose you could rewire the N3 internal speakers and adjust the speakers how you like (PianoTeq has 5 channel audio with adjustability in the UI. You could run several channels on some other VIs). Never saw anyone try and I think it would be tougher to optimize than it is for two monitors.

Thanks, that's an excellent point. And I wonder if the additional speakers of the N3X wouldn't compound that problem, versus the N1X. This week, I hope to get either Pianoteq or Garritan and start experimenting with the N1X and see how it goes. Who knows, I may hate it. lol


Moderated by  Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Couch to Concert Hall
Couch to Concert Hall
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Ringing overtones on certain notes
by Will M - 04/17/21 07:25 PM
Young Chang U-121 Age and Price
by sansandreas - 04/17/21 06:59 PM
A detailed review for Pianoteq 7 Pro
by TheodorN - 04/17/21 06:50 PM
Question about Grand Piano dynamics range?
by Jojovan - 04/17/21 06:45 PM
Innie/Outtie Blues 2
by Dfrankjazz - 04/17/21 05:38 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics206,361
Posts3,083,591
Members101,223
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5