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I understand that some actions degrade over time, that is, they do not feel as good as the GHS of yamaha.
My question goes to those who have a roland piano with ph4-standard either fp10 / 30/60, if this also applies to these roland dp, I have heard that the action is very good but I do not know if it will be durable over time or lose the quality, this is my question to acquire this dp.

Please Help Me!

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I don't recall seeing many reports here about PHA-4S problems, or claims of wearing out (compared to, say, fairly common complaints of Casio's older SHA becoming very clacky and loud after a few months of playing). I used to play on a well-worn Ivory-Feel G, which was the precursor to PHA-4S, and it held up amazingly well for amount of play it had (as a relatively public instrument). I wouldn't worry too much about it, IMO.


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There was a guy who worked for Roland in Canada, who posted here a fair amount. He no longer works for Roland and I don't know if he still posts here. He posted on this very subject back when the PHA-3 was the current Roland keybed, saying that Roland pianos were used in public schools all over Canada and that there were lots of kids pounding on these DPs all day, every day so there were many thousands of hours on these and Roland never had to replace any of them. Whether the PHA-4 is that sturdy I don't know, however I can't imagine Roland taking a step backwards in their keybed development.

Tony


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I have a Roland FP-4, so with an ancient PHA (alpha) II action. I believe it is now 11 years old and the action has not changed at all.
The only things that sometimes need to be pressed twice are the various buttons for sound selection, metronome etc., but the keys themselves just keep working.


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I own an old Roland FP-4, looking for a hybrid piano to upgrade to!

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I’ve pounded on my FP-30 for nearly 5 years and it’s still going strong. When I’ve tried new PHA4 actions in stores, they feel the same as the one I have at home, basically like new.

There is a video online where a guy needed to re-grease some keys because they were getting loud, but that hasn’t been an issue with mine. FWIW - I’m in hot tropical weather, so maybe the key grease in mine stays pretty liquid.


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the key grease in mine stays pretty liquid.

'Cause you're playing that smooooooooooooooth groove!

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Originally Posted by TonyB
There was a guy who worked for Roland in Canada, who posted here a fair amount. He no longer works for Roland and I don't know if he still posts here. He posted on this very subject back when the PHA-3 was the current Roland keybed, saying that Roland pianos were used in public schools all over Canada and that there were lots of kids pounding on these DPs all day, every day so there were many thousands of hours on these and Roland never had to replace any of them. Whether the PHA-4 is that sturdy I don't know, however I can't imagine Roland taking a step backwards in their keybed development.

Tony

I haven't seen many reports of problems with the PHA-4 Standard action as fitted to FP-30, 60, RD-88 etc. But that is Roland's lower end action and is not related to the older PHA-III and its successor actions.

But it was Jay you're talking about from Roland and of course his prophesies of almost endless life to Roland actions were rather undone by the 'Ivory Feel' surface issues catastrophe for Roland when they had to replace many many actions under warranty because the keytops started to flake, starting with PHA-III actions. Likewise the first generation of PHA-50 actions were plagued with problems. Roland's intrinsic manufacturing quality definitely took a tumble in my opinion, at least for a period. Hopefully they've regained the lost ground now.

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I'm very surprised to hear about the "Ivory Feel" flaking problems that you refer to. I have an RD-800 that of course has those very keys and I've had zero problem with them. They look as great as they day I bought the keyboard. I'm going to go looking for information on the issue. Have had the keyboard six or seven years now, played it a lot, surely that problem would have shown up by now .... ?

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Originally Posted by Crocus
I'm very surprised to hear about the "Ivory Feel" flaking problems that you refer to....I'm going to go looking for information on the issue....

Innumerable key actions were replaced under warranty. It was a really big deal at the time.

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Hello,

I purchased my Roland FP-10 with PHA-4 Standard some four, five months ago after a thorough comparison of a lot of piano's and actions. As I solely use it as a MIDI piano to drive a library (VI Labs' Modern U) on my PC, action was the critical factor in making my purchase decision.

Within my budget, I liked the triple sensor PHA-4 Standard best for playability, nuance control and at least some degree of 'acoustic piano' realism, with quite some margin to the rest of the options.

I also came across the video(s) that Groove On mentions above and this seriously held me back at first. The issue was said to be a ball pen-like clicking that the keys would develop over time, coming from the (greased) linkage between each key and its hammer mechanism below. In a store, I tried the FP-10, FP-30 and A88 Mk II, all of which have the same PHA-4. I could hear early signs of this clicking in each of the three...

So I veered off the Roland path but later on came back to it for the action was too much as I would like to have it, other makes and models just didn't do it for me. So I purchased the FP-10, aware of the 'ball pen' risk, and calculated that it could be fixed should it occur in my piano as well. One fix would be to touch up the greasing (as in the video), another would involve using strips of aluminum tape instead. I found the latter idea somewhere here on Pianoworld; I don't know how feasible that actually is.

Out of the box, my FP-10's key action was absolutely silent. After these first months, I am very happy with the action as it plays and with the triple sensor MIDI accuracy and versatility it presents to the piano library I use. From this playing perspective, I definitely can recommend PHA-4.

And... lo and behold... the clicking issue emerged in my FP-10 as well. It is in one or two keys, not always the same ones, it comes and goes, is not particularly loud and does not affect the playing in any way. When it's there, it annoys the heck out of me, for I am rather sensitive for anything less than perfect. However, I tell myself to remain calm and concentrate on practising the music, knowing that if the issue enlarges, it can be handled with some 'maintenance'. And at the end of the day, all serious musical instruments, pianos in particular, need some maintenance from time to time.

Apart from the 'ball pen' issue, this action feels very stable and nothing makes me doubt it wouldn't stay like that for quite some time to come. I am glad that the posts above confirm this feeling.

I hope my experience and motivation to buy my FP-10 regardless can help you make your decisions as well.

Cheers and happy playing!

HZ

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Would you remember roughly what year this problem was happening ? It certainly would be a big deal, as you say, but it's news to me and I'm just trying to find some information on it. It occurs to me that the "ivory feel" keys under discussion could have been on other models (I have the RD-800, as I mentioned earlier) and the problem could have involved those instruments rather than the model I have. Can't believe my lovely RD-800 here could have caused me such trouble -- I've had nothing but pleasure with it !

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Originally Posted by EssBrace
Originally Posted by Crocus
I'm very surprised to hear about the "Ivory Feel" flaking problems that you refer to....I'm going to go looking for information on the issue....

Innumerable key actions were replaced under warranty. It was a really big deal at the time.
Ah, the “innumerable” argument wink

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Originally Posted by davick
I understand that some actions degrade over time, that is, they do not feel as good as the GHS of yamaha.
My question goes to those who have a roland piano with ph4-standard either fp10 / 30/60, if this also applies to these roland dp, I have heard that the action is very good but I do not know if it will be durable over time or lose the quality, this is my question to acquire this dp.

Please Help Me!

I had the FP50 which has a different designated action. It feels exactly the same as the PH4. It was quiet, and remained so for over 4 years. There was slight deteriaration on the key surfaces caused by finger nails. Nothing else.
The keybed itself felt better than anything I've played and my fingers were well happy with the surface texture.

Last edited by peterws; 02/28/21 04:07 AM.

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Originally Posted by Crocus
Would you remember roughly what year this problem was happening ? It certainly would be a big deal, as you say, but it's news to me and I'm just trying to find some information on it.

Just search this forum with the words "Roland Ivory wear".

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Originally Posted by Fleer
Originally Posted by EssBrace
Originally Posted by Crocus
I'm very surprised to hear about the "Ivory Feel" flaking problems that you refer to....I'm going to go looking for information on the issue....

Innumerable key actions were replaced under warranty. It was a really big deal at the time.
Ah, the “innumerable” argument wink

It's not an 'argument'. There's a number. It's significant. But I don't know what it is. Roland knows but it'll never say. So it's innumerable to me and you.

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Originally Posted by davick
I understand that some actions degrade over time, that is, they do not feel as good as the GHS of yamaha.

Degradation means, "deteriorating, getting worse".

Not feeling as good means, they were not as good from the outset.

If a Roland doesn't feel as good as a Yamaha when you buy it it s not suddenly going to get better than a Yamaha, therefore, buy a Yamaha.

However, if you prefer the Roland I doubt very much that in three years time it will be worse than a Yamaha, therefore, buy the Roland.

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I kid you not about Rolands being overpriced. Do the math and you, too, will figure it out.

They keep touting their physical modeling as perhaps being the one thing that sets them apart and above (price-wise), but the truth is that Pianoteq and even Yamaha/Kawai’s new approach (sampling and modeling) is better.

They brag about the 6-channel system and huge subwoofers on their flagships, but the truth is that my P-515 sounds more natural and less processed despite tiny amps/speakers (as compared to the LX-17, but I have a feeling the LX7XX isn’t all that much different/better).

Don’t even get me started on the quality, or lack thereof, of their cabinets. It’s hard to describe it but when I lifted the ‘lid’ on my LX-17 it felt like a light plastic (pseudo-wood) piece of an IKEA set.

The cabinet was crooked and uneven throughout; again, akin to an IKEA piece of furniture that never quite stands straight no matter how much you try.

Do you know that their current flagship LX7$$ costs as much if not more than an NV5? Please don’t tell me this is right because it isn’t!

The NV5 is an instrument; the LX7$$ wants to be one, and in the process, Roland is going to make sure they recoup all the money they spent on the V-piano (a failure?) by charging you extra for their current offerings. IMHO!

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Pete: don't forget that these price discussions vary from region to region... In europe roland is highly competitive to yamaha: clp745 is 2500eur while hp704 is 1700eur. Flagsgip clp785 is 4000eur while lx708 is 3500eur and lx706 is 3000eur (lx706 and 708 only differ in cabinet, afaik).

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You are correct about these region-based variations, and yes, I should specify that I am referring to pricing in the USA.


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