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Joined: May 2001
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If you go here:
https://www.pianobuyer.com/new-piano-pricing/

you can enter in any desired criteria and search for all pianos in your price range. Make sure to enter an SMP and read the description of SMP so you understand how it is used.

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Look at Piedmont Pianos here in Oakland. They have quite a variety.


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This is the list I got for pianos with SMPs of 20K-40K with a 25% discount from SMP. The first figure is the MSRP, second is the SMP, third is the SMP after 25% discount.

Baldwin Professional Series BP178 5' 10" Satin Ebony Lacquer $43,825 $28,390 $21,293
Baldwin Professional Series BP178 5' 10" Polished Ebony $39,665 $25,790 $19,343
Baldwin Professional Series BP190 6' 3" Polished Ebony $47,345 $30,590 $22,943
Baldwin Professional Series BP190 6' 3" Satin Ebony Lacquer $51,825 $33,390 $25,043
Boston GP-178 PE-II 5' 10" Satin and Polished Ebony $32,100 $32,100 $24,075
Boston GP-178A PE-II 5' 10" Polished Ebony with Silver Hardware $33,900 $33,900 $25,425
Brodmann PE 187 V 6' 2" Polished Ebony w/Carbon-Fiber Action $46,790 $26,380 $19,785
Brodmann PE 187 6' 2" Strauss Polished Two Tone (Ebony/Bubinga) $44,190 $24,980 $18,735
Brodmann PE 187 6' 2" Polished Ebony $40,190 $22,780 $17,085
Cunningham Parlour Grand 5' 10" Satin Ebony $30,490 $30,490 $22,868
Cunningham Parlour Grand 5' 10" Polished Ebony $29,290 $29,290 $21,968
Hailun HG178B 5' 10" Baroque Polished Ebony w/Birds-Eye Maple Accents $37,545 $26,030 $19,523
Hailun HG178 5' 10" Polished Ebony $35,493 $24,662 $18,497
Hailun HG198 6' 5" Emerson Polished Ebony $53,505 $36,670 $27,503
Hoffmann, W. Vision Series V175 5' 9" Polished Ebony $32,900 $32,423 $24,317
Hoffmann, W. Vision Series V183 6' 0" Polished Ebony $35,900 $35,325 $26,494
Hupfeld Europe Edition F 175E 5' 9" Polished Ebony $36,374 $33,332 $24,999
Hupfeld Europe Edition F 190E 6' 3" Polished Ebony $43,472 $39,642 $29,732
Hupfeld Studio Edition F 188 6' 2" Polished Ebony $29,756 $27,450 $20,588
Irmler Professional Edition F175E 5' 9" Polished Ebony $36,374 $31,825 $23,869
Irmler Professional Edition F190E 6' 3" Polished Ebony $43,472 $37,841 $28,381
Irmler Studio Edition F188 6' 2" Polished Ebony $29,756 $26,217 $19,663
Kawai GX-2 BLK 5' 11" Satin and Polished Ebony $41,795 $38,590 $28,943
Kawai GL-40 5' 11" Satin and Polished Ebony $34,895 $32,390 $24,293
Kawai GX-2 BLK 5' 11" Satin and Polished Ebony $41,795 $38,590 $28,943
Kawai GL-40 5' 11" Satin and Polished Ebony $34,895 $32,390 $24,293
Kawai GL-50 6' 2" Polished Ebony $39,995 $36,990 $27,743
Kawai GL-50 6' 2" Polished Ebony $39,995 $36,990 $27,743
Krause Berlin, Ernst KC-170 5' 7" Polished Ebony $31,540 $26,190 $19,643
Krause Berlin, Ernst KC-186 6' 1" Polished Ebony $35,750 $29,690 $22,268
Mason & Hamlin Artist Series MHA 188G 6' 2" Polished Ebony $23,346 $23,346 $17,510
Perzina GBT-187 Royal 6' 2" Designer Queen Anne or Empire Polished Ebony $21,950 $20,910 $15,683
Perzina GBT-187 Royal 6' 2" Polished Ebony $21,620 $20,590 $15,443
Pramberger, J.P. Platinum Series JP-179L 5' 10" Satin Ebony $44,079 $24,998 $18,749
Pramberger, J.P. Platinum Series JP-179L 5' 10" Polished Ebony $42,849 $24,398 $18,299
Ritmuller Premium GH 188R 6' 2" Polished Ebony $27,195 $20,990 $15,743
Samick NSG Series NSG 175 5' 7" Satin Ebony $27,995 $20,998 $15,749
Samick NSG Series NSG 186 6' 1" Satin Ebony $30,795 $22,998 $17,249
Samick NSG Series NSG 186 6' 1" Polished Ebony $29,395 $21,998 $16,499
Schimmel, Wilhelm W 180 6' 0" Tradition Polished Ebony $41,413 $34,130 $25,598
Schulz, Gebr. G-86 6' 0" Polished Ebony $23,995 $23,995 $17,996
Schulze Pollmann Studio Series S172A 5' 8" Polished Ebony $24,995 $22,490 $16,868
Schulze Pollmann Studio Series SU172A 5' 8" Polished Peacock Ebony/Feather Mahogany $25,995 $23,490 $17,618
Schulze Pollmann Studio Series S187A 6' 2" Polished Ebony $27,995 $25,490 $19,118
Schulze Pollmann Studio Series SU187A 6' 2" Polished Peacock Ebony/Feather Mahogany $28,995 $27,490 $20,618
Seiler, Eduard ED-168HS 5' 6" Heritage, Satin Ebony $46,999 $35,798 $26,849
Seiler, Eduard ED-168 5' 6" Virtuoso, Satin Ebony $37,720 $28,940 $21,705
Seiler, Eduard ED-168HS 5' 6" Heritage, Polished Ebony $45,759 $34,998 $26,249
Seiler, Eduard ED-168 5' 6" Virtuoso, Polished Ebony $37,180 $28,540 $21,405
Seiler, Eduard ED-186 6' 2" Maestro, Satin Ebony $45,890 $34,800 $26,100
Seiler, Eduard ED-186 6' 2" Maestro, Polished Ebony $44,550 $34,000 $25,500
Steinberg, Wilh. Performance Series P178 5' 10" Polished Ebony $34,490 $23,993 $17,995
Weber, Albert AW 185 6' 1" Polished Ebony $37,550 $30,180 $22,635
Wendl & Lung 180 5' 11" Polished Ebony $35,922 $22,948 $17,211
Yamaha GC2 5' 8" Satin and Polished Ebony $28,959 $26,998 $20,249
Yamaha GC2 5' 8" Satin and Polished Ebony $28,959 $26,998 $20,249
Yamaha Silent GC2SH2 5' 8" Satin and Polished Ebony $33,459 $30,698 $23,024
Zimmermann Z 175 5' 9" Polished Ebony $22,900 $22,848 $17,136
Zimmermann Z 185 6' 1" Polished Ebony $24,900 $24,299 $18,224

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Originally Posted by SonatainfSharp
And "industry discounts" here in Minneapolis don't seem to apply as they do in other parts of the country. It's something that has always disappointed me. Even my own favorite Walter dealer applies them differently across brands. A tangible example from three days ago, though not my Walter dealer, is my local Kawai/S&S dealer has every single Kawai, Boston, S&S, and Essex way above SMP/MLSP listed in PianoBuyer. Same with the Yamaha/Young Chang dealer here, too. My student bought a Yamaha grand recently that was so far above PianoBuyer's SMP/MLSP that I didn't have the heart to tell him.
Maybe that store just prices pianos very high hoping to make a big profit or to convince the buyer they have a great deal when they come down from highly inflated prices.

It's not unreasonable if a dealer discounts different brands differently. The suggested/hoped for discounts from SMP are average figures.

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Originally Posted by Sir Lurksalot
Originally Posted by SonatainfSharp
If you want to look for used, try to find a used Charles Walter grand, though winning the lottery might be easier. They go anywhere from $20,000-$40,000 used. They start at around $100,000 new, though.

I haven't been paying much attention to piano prices lately, so I was shocked to read the above statement that Charles Walter grands start around $100K. According to Pianobuyer.com, the 175 model starts at $80K and the 190 at $85K. Assuming typical industry discounts, this would translate to somewhere around $60-65K. Still a big increase from back when I was familiar with the brand, but nowhere near $100K.
I am beating a dead horse, sorry, but in my defense here, I just checked PianoBuyer for Charles Walter a few moments ago. They $85,000-97,000 in PianoBuyer right now. Take away a generically low chance of discount where I live, add sales tax (7.125%), and that is MORE than $100,000. So, I don't understand where I was wrong here. ::shrugs::

Now, the actual price based on dealer that you go to, where we all live, etc, etc? I can't know that, and I am not going to call around before responding to forums posts. frown

ETA: Referring to the longer, older 190s, above, because the shorter models are very new in their overall line-up (I don't think I have that backwards).


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Originally Posted by SonatainfSharp
Originally Posted by Sir Lurksalot
Originally Posted by SonatainfSharp
If you want to look for used, try to find a used Charles Walter grand, though winning the lottery might be easier. They go anywhere from $20,000-$40,000 used. They start at around $100,000 new, though.

I haven't been paying much attention to piano prices lately, so I was shocked to read the above statement that Charles Walter grands start around $100K. According to Pianobuyer.com, the 175 model starts at $80K and the 190 at $85K. Assuming typical industry discounts, this would translate to somewhere around $60-65K. Still a big increase from back when I was familiar with the brand, but nowhere near $100K.
I am beating a dead horse, sorry, but in my defense here, I just checked PianoBuyer for Charles Walter a few moments ago. They $85,000-97,000 in PianoBuyer right now. Take away a generically low chance of discount where I live, add sales tax (7.125%), and that is MORE than $100,000. So, I don't understand where I was wrong here. ::shrugs::

I think that all that went wrong is that you said "They start at around $100,000 new" rather than "I think that around me they would go for around 100,000" and here on the internet folks generally like to correct that sort of categorical statement so that it doesn't mislead others. It doesn't help either that your estimate seems based on some theoretical calculation disregarding the discount PB typically expects to be deducted from their SMP and that you haven't actually negotiated with your local dealer or taken other steps to find out what the price would really be. Sorry.

Originally Posted by SonatainfSharp
Now, the actual price based on dealer that you go to, where we all live, etc, etc? I can't know that, and I am not going to call around before responding to forums posts. frown

ETA: Referring to the longer, older 190s, above, because the shorter models are very new in their overall line-up (I don't think I have that backwards).

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Hello JHL,

The Bay Area will offer good selection, but less in the way of "bargains" when it comes to medium-sized grands. Some of the brands and models listed above by pianoloverus include some of the higher value competitors to the more commonly known Japanese brands, a different way to find a bargain when it comes to performance.

I always suggest customers first check out new pianos with reputable dealers to get their bearings and preferences before venturing into the much more conditional wink world of used and private sales.

Go visit a few and please report back your impressions. A few dealers in your area were already recommended.


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Originally Posted by SonatainfSharp
... in my defense here, I just checked PianoBuyer for Charles Walter a few moments ago. They $85,000-97,000 in PianoBuyer right now. Take away a generically low chance of discount where I live, add sales tax (7.125%), and that is MORE than $100,000. So, I don't understand where I was wrong here. ::shrugs::

You missed the W-175 in Satin Oak ($79,940)

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If the first five significant digits are ignored, that is still about $100,000.


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Whenever I hear options for 30K I think of upright piano from a high end dealer downtown Vancouver dealer where they had a 9 year old Grotrian 124 (Classic ) for sale.
We went to try it and found that the piano was very bright.The strange thing was it had been tuned and prepared for our visit.
There was a distinct break in the treble from the bass with the result that the treble was much brighter even than the bass.The touch response was not good.
This is the only time I played a Grotrian so I was put off. ( even though I realise this was not typical of Grotrian). I thought 30K (CAD) kind of high for a 9 year old upright piano in that condition.

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Whoa.. didn't expect this many responses. Thank you all for the great suggestions. This forum is great smile

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This Steinway A would be a good option, depending on who did the work.


https://portland.craigslist.org/clc/msg/d/lake-oswego-steinway-model/7282422630.html

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Originally Posted by oldMH
This Steinway A would be a good option, depending on who did the work.

https://portland.craigslist.org/clc/msg/d/lake-oswego-steinway-model/7282422630.html
In NYC a completely rebuilt A(with new soundboard)sells for more than double that price. So even though that piano only has a shimmed soundboard it seems very inexpensive. I think NYC is, in general, an expensive place for pianos.

For a non expert I think it's very difficult to evaluate rebuilding work so one can know if the much more expensive rebuilds are worth the much higher price.

The piano seems to be in a private home which I don't understand. Also the legs don't really match the case but I don't know if that's usually done for a figured mahogany case. The pictures showing the plate look strange as if the plate was unevenly finished but that might just be shadows.

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JHL,

Sometimes a bit of travel will be required on your part to try things out and find just the right scenario...easier these days with covid, as planes aren't packed and prices are low.

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With the budget you mention, there are lots of options in the SF area. My recommendation is to stick with well-known brands such as Yamaha, Kawai, Boston, etc. Also, a lot of used pianos should be considered, and you might be able to find a Steinway model O or A within your budget. Always have a competent technician to make an assessment.

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Not a bad sound!

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Originally Posted by JHL
Whoa.. didn't expect this many responses. Thank you all for the great suggestions. This forum is great smile

Go to San Mateo Piano and ask for Bozkurt or Tim.

Buy yourself a Kawai GX-2

That's my advice.

You're welcome.


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