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#3086090 02/24/21 12:57 AM
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fraaly Offline OP
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I've included below my thoughts on the NU1X after owning for one year.

Earlier I provided thoughts after 1 month, in this thread:
http://forum.pianoworld.com//ubbthreads.php/topics/2964252/nu1x-one-month-in.html#Post2964252


1) The CFX is good - very realistic and responsive buttttt..... the sustain on the Boesendorfer is much longer and more realistic. There's not much "blooming" from overpedaling that you get with a real piano (on the CFX).
2) In my opinion, the Boesendorfer is greatly improved by setting the key response to "light". Default setting requires pounding on the keyboard to get proper dynamics. The CFX is perfect, by comparison.
2.5) Also, the Boesendorfer just sounds a bit "off", tonally, compared to the CFX.
3) Speaking of key response, whenever I connect an external VST (actually, I've only tried Pianoteq), I find a discrepancy in response between the lower registers (which seem very subdued) and the upper registers (which scream out at near max volume even when playing pianissimo). Suspect this is related to the keybed-only velocity sensors? I've tried to correct for this within pianoteq but it doesn't seem to be able to do register-specific velocity adjustment - only a global curve applied equally to all keys. I'm interested to know if this is just a Pianoteq thing. Want to try Garritan soon. This basically stopped me from buying Pianoteq.
4) The keyboard is quite heavy compared to some real uprights I've played recently. I think I prefer heavy, but I hadn't realised quite how heavy it was.
5) No reliability problems whatsoever except for late last night when it started playing random notes by itself... thought there was a burglar in the house. No idea what caused this, but it only happened once.
6) The trill/loud notes issue which affected earlier firmwares has largely been solved (for me) but it is still encountered occasionally. Doesn't bother me. I'm running the latest firmware, which my piano shipped with so I never experienced it when it was more prominent.
7) The other pianos are essentially useless compared to the CFX/Bosie. Maybe this speaks to how good the CFX and Boesendorfer are?
8) The short sustain on the celeste is still a major issue - but it doesn't get much use anyway. The Pianoteq celeste is amaaaaazing by comparison.

Still a great piano and probably the best choice for my budget/needs. No regrets. Also just after I got it for $6k (Australian) the price was increased to $9k, so I feel very lucky to have bought it at the right price. I wouldn't pay $9k.

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Thanks for the report - it's appreciated. But of course . . . we're gonna have to hear more about those notes that played by themselves. So the NU1X was "on", I assume?

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Yeah it was weird. I turned on the piano, played a bit, then left the room (leaving the piano on). About 10 mins after leaving I heard a few staccato low notes. Not the same note but all within the same octave. Fairly low velocities. About 10 notes in the space of 1 minute.
I guess the optical detection was getting confused - saw a change in laser received signal strength and interpreted as a note. Thought it might have been a speck of dust, but it was several different notes so can't have been random dust. Maybe a power issue but there was no power loss/high winds/etc. I still don't have any leads - but still 4 years more warranty so I'm not too concerned!... for now...!

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Originally Posted by fraaly
Yeah it was weird. I turned on the piano, played a bit, then left the room (leaving the piano on). About 10 mins after leaving I heard a few staccato low notes. Not the same note but all within the same octave. Fairly low velocities. About 10 notes in the space of 1 minute.
I guess the optical detection was getting confused - saw a change in laser received signal strength and interpreted as a note. Thought it might have been a speck of dust, but it was several different notes so can't have been random dust. Maybe a power issue but there was no power loss/high winds/etc. I still don't have any leads - but still 4 years more warranty so I'm not too concerned!... for now...!
I immediately think of insects! crazy I have a space detection alarm system, and it has in the past been triggered by spiders.

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Isn't it too early to rule out ghosts completely?


Roland FP-30, Roland E-28
Synthogy Ivory II Studio Grands, Production Voices Estate Grand, Garritan CFX Lite, Pianoteq 7.0 (Blüthner, Bechstein DG, Grotrian, Steinway D, K2)
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If Pete14 were still here he would surely know the cause. smile
Originally Posted by fraaly
I turned on the piano, played a bit, then left the room. About 10 mins after leaving I heard a few staccato low notes.
Originally Posted by QuasiUnaFantasia
Isn't it too early to rule out ghosts completely?

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Ghosts are real!

I’ve had one on my back for many years. Just for kicks, the ghost on my back trips me all over the keys by tapping on my elbow ever so slightly.

Sometimes he gets off my back and heads to the fridge for a snack (food I never ate suddenly goes missing), but at other times he can be outright cruel. Just last night he shut off the hot water and turned on the cold right before I got into the shower.

I’ve learned to live with “Timmy”, but it’s not easy, you guys! wink

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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
If Pete14 were still here he would surely know the cause. smile

Wait, what? Is he gone? Did he get banned? Or was he just

Originally Posted by Pete14
Ghosts are real!

I’ve had one

oh.


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Originally Posted by fraaly
3) Speaking of key response, whenever I connect an external VST (actually, I've only tried Pianoteq), I find a discrepancy in response between the lower registers (which seem very subdued) and the upper registers (which scream out at near max volume even when playing pianissimo). Suspect this is related to the keybed-only velocity sensors? I've tried to correct for this within pianoteq but it doesn't seem to be able to do register-specific velocity adjustment - only a global curve applied equally to all keys. I'm interested to know if this is just a Pianoteq thing. Want to try Garritan soon. This basically stopped me from buying Pianoteq.

PianoTeq Pro allows you to set parameters for every note, and Standard lets you edit a few parameters per note (but volume is one). I use this to correct for the subdued response as you've mentioned here. Doesn't require a lot of adjustment -- 1 or 2db, but definitely makes a difference. I find that increasing volume around C1 by 1 or 2 db works well (will depend on your ear), and if you find the high register too loud, you can reduce at C5 by a couple db.

I also tend to increase the stereo width quite a bit -- it feels to me as the default settings are often to narrow for the NU1X when compared to the built-in sounds.

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Originally Posted by Gombessa
Wait, what? Is he gone? Did he get banned? Or was he just


As the moderators say, "he has left the building" for some (well deserved wink ) vacations. Apparently he as not been missed to much as nobody seemed to notice his absence. Now, the noise is back to the forum, though it will not make a difference to me as I am ignoring his messages.


Kawai ES8, Roland RD2000, Yamaha AG06 mixer, Presonus Eris E5 monitors, Sennheiser HD598SR phones.
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He was indeed banned.
Someone pointed that out to me weeks ago. His profile status said "banned".
But I guess it was temporary because he's back and he's talking about ghosts.

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Quote
But I guess it was temporary because he's back and he's talking about ghosts.

Hopefully it is Friendly Ghosts wink


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Originally Posted by EPW
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But I guess it was temporary because he's back and he's talking about ghosts.

Hopefully it is Friendly Ghosts wink

Bet he won't be talking about pianos that go bump in the night, strike up of their own accord, and charge $9k for the privilege .. . . .Strewth! Why? I do not understand you humans . . . . .


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

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fraaly Offline OP
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Wow - lots to reply to here - I'll reply to the only substantial one first laugh

Originally Posted by Kerri Shotts
Originally Posted by fraaly
3) Speaking of key response, whenever I connect an external VST (actually, I've only tried Pianoteq), I find a discrepancy in response between the lower registers (which seem very subdued) and the upper registers (which scream out at near max volume even when playing pianissimo). Suspect this is related to the keybed-only velocity sensors? I've tried to correct for this within pianoteq but it doesn't seem to be able to do register-specific velocity adjustment - only a global curve applied equally to all keys. I'm interested to know if this is just a Pianoteq thing. Want to try Garritan soon. This basically stopped me from buying Pianoteq.

PianoTeq Pro allows you to set parameters for every note, and Standard lets you edit a few parameters per note (but volume is one). I use this to correct for the subdued response as you've mentioned here. Doesn't require a lot of adjustment -- 1 or 2db, but definitely makes a difference. I find that increasing volume around C1 by 1 or 2 db works well (will depend on your ear), and if you find the high register too loud, you can reduce at C5 by a couple db.

I also tend to increase the stereo width quite a bit -- it feels to me as the default settings are often to narrow for the NU1X when compared to the built-in sounds.


Kerri - great input!

Actually I did try this exact thing out earlier, but it occurs to me that this is probably a bit of a bandaid fix - mainly because this procedure is (I think) scaling the note volume AFTER the note has been rendered - i.e.:
a) if I play a p note in the upper register, it comes out very loud, like mf or even ff. As I mentioned, I suspect the midi velocity value is too high (and the NU1X must do scaling internally because the response with the CFX is fine, but this scaling doesn't make it to the midi output). Anyway, if I play something that should be like a "30", I suspect it outputs something more like a "70" in the upper registers (because the key mechanisms are lighter in the upper registers so the key actually moves faster). Pianoteq sees the "70" and plays a mf note.
b) If we then scale the volume in pianoteq, it still sees a "70" and plays the timbre of a mf note, but just "turns down the volume" according to how much we ask for it to be scaled back. So it's a mf timbre note but turned down.
c) Would be better if the scaling was done on the midi velocity in the first place.

Kerri - does this match your experiences? Or do you think the Pianoteq volume scaling procedure occurs on the input?

Actually, I did some digging yesterday. It seems like Cantabile can do what I want - essentially a real time midi velocity filter which can be applied as a function of note pitch:
https://www.cantabilesoftware.com/guides/midiFilters#pitch-based-velocity-ramp
Unfortunately it looks like this functionality isn't available on the free version.

Now, as for the ghosts - I hadn't considered them (or insects, which might be the answer!! Thanks spanishbuddha.)

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Originally Posted by EPW
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But I guess it was temporary because he's back and he's talking about ghosts.

Hopefully it is Friendly Ghosts wink


I was not on ‘vacation’; I was on a two-week sabbatical.


I come in peace.😔

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Originally Posted by fraaly
does this match your experiences? Or do you think the Pianoteq volume scaling procedure occurs on the input?

That's a good question. I didn't have the sense that it was unnatural, but I'll have to pay closer attention to it. For the pro version, there's also a Dynamics setting that you can modify, which might be useful here. Another option is that Hammer hardness for Piano, Mezzo, and Forte is also configurable per note, which could also be useful.

Actually, one reason I may not have noticed the same thing here is that I significantly reduce the hammer volume when on my NU1X, because the action is already loud enough for me. Might be worth trying out, since that can definitely make it sound like you're imparting more force when the volume is high in addition to the already loud action of the NU1X.

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Hello,

Yesterday I read your 'shopping', 'one month', and 'one year' threads. Interesting contributions!

Now here's a thought: because your N1X has an upright action and you loved the real world U1 and U3 so much, and are trying VSTis by now, it occurred to me that VI Labs' Modern U, which is a finely sampled brand new Yamaha U3, could be a great match for you.

Authenticity is key for me, and in that respect I absolutely love it. Hardly any other library floats my boat so to speak.

The only thing that has me worried is the (single sensor??) inaccurate response of the N1X as you mention it when using it as a MIDI piano. Which seems odd to me by the way for such a higher-tier instrument. I play Modern U through a triple sensor (Roland) action and Modern U makes excellent use of the accuracy and versatility it provides. I wouldn't know how this would be on your key action. Modern U has great velocity and volume mapping curve settings, but cannot do so for individual keys or ranges.

Speaking of which, there are tools that can sit inbetween the MIDI message stream that comes from your instrument and your VSTi. Such tools let you create translations, for instance keys/ranges that produce too high velocities can be intercepted and made to output a proportionally lower velocity to your VSTi. I believe that the free (at least for personal use) software MIDIoX is such a tool. I use this tool for monitoring MIDI messages and troubleshooting, but haven't tried the translations because I didn't need those.

Hope these suggestions are of value to you.

Cheers and happy playing,

HZ

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Oops! Edit: Where I wrote N1X, I obviously meant NU1X.

Cheers,

HZ

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fraaly Offline OP
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Thanks Kerri - will try the hammer noise thing tonight!

And thanks HZ - haha I was about to write my own Python midi velocity filter based around this github repository: https://github.com/aj00200/midifire
But if that MIDIoX tool lets me do that, then you've saved me a lot of time laugh

By the way, I didn't mean to imply that the NU1X was inaccurate. Indeed, it's surprisingly accurate in almost all instances (except when the action is blocked and a loud note results.... or when ghosts are in the keys). It's just that although the velocity gradient is well-characterised internally, those corrections don't seem to make it through to the MIDI output signals (which is, indeed, disappointing for a high-end instrument, and limits its use as a MIDI controller).

Can't wait to check out Modern U!! The NU1X's internal upright piano samples are garbage, and the Pianoteq one isn't great either.

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Hello fraaly,

Great, be sure to let us know how Modern U and the taming of the midi shrew turn out for you!

Cheers and happy playing,

HZ

PS Some months ago I was also inclined to open my c++ IDE and write a filter. Very glad I'm not actually doing that 🥱.

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