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Originally Posted by Dave Ferris
Originally Posted by Volusiano
I remember that Chick Corea was one of the famous musicians who endorsed the N3 when it first came out.

https://usa.yamaha.com/news_events/...e-yamaha-avantgrand-hybrid-piano_us.html

Yes that was the icing on the cake, after playing one of course , that made me want one !

So not being tech savvy with regard to posting pictures...it's much easier to put a FB link up with them. Apologies to anyone not on FB.

https://www.facebook.com/dave.ferris.125323/posts/2750392021881700
Looks fabulous. Love the matching dog too.

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Awesome.. looks beautiful and very inviting to play! Also, loved the 'piano dog'!!

Osho


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interesting what yamaha did well in N3X making it significantly better in sound output than NV10. it appears:
1) soundboard
2) even distribution of 4 x 16cm speakers instead of relying on just one.
3) amongst other reasons.

in photos i see the 4 one-inch tweeters paired with the 10cm midranges but i don't see the 16cm woofers - are they firing towards the floor, or internally towards the soundboard?

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^ Yamaha uses multichannel sampling that’s also reproduced through corresponding multiple channels/speakers. On the Kawai the sampling is multichannel but it gets mixed down to stereo before being sent to the speakers. I may be wrong but that’s my impression. If that’s indeed the case, it would really be the big deal.

Besides, I’m not even sure the multichannel sampling in Kawai is meant for spatial soundscape. It may rather be a mix of multiple stereo perspectives (close and distant) which is not exactly the same as sampling with 4 microphones and reproducing through 4 channels to create a spatial separation.

Last edited by CyberGene; 02/13/21 09:25 AM.

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Originally Posted by kailord
interesting what yamaha did well in N3X making it significantly better in sound output than NV10....

Well, it's a vastly more expensive product. One glance at the audio signal chain (amps and speakers) gives you your answer. In addition I was told by a good source when I had an N3 that the speaker drivers were actually by Dynaudio.

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Originally Posted by kailord
in photos i see the 4 one-inch tweeters paired with the 10cm midranges but i don't see the 16cm woofers - are they firing towards the floor, or internally towards the soundboard?
There are 4 woofers at the bottom firing at the floor.

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Awesome pictures Dave, I wish you lots of fun with your N3X!

Originally Posted by CyberGene
^ Yamaha uses multichannel sampling that’s also reproduced through corresponding multiple channels/speakers. On the Kawai the sampling is multichannel but it gets mixed down to stereo before being sent to the speakers. I may be wrong but that’s my impression. If that’s indeed the case, it would really be the big deal.

Very interesting, that might explain why the (speaker) sound of the N3X was more convincing to me than the NV10. I suppose the multichannel sampling is specific to the N3X and not available on the n1x, correct ? 'Cause on the n1x as well I wasn't convinced.


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The N1X also has 4-channel multi-sampling and multichannel reproduction but it’s probably not as effective as on the N3X since it’s too small as a footprint to make a difference IMO, no soundboard either. That being said I like its sound through speakers more than any typical digital piano such as the Clavinovas and the CA-s, etc. It’s indeed kind of muffled which is what people mostly mention as a negative but on the other hand the sound is balanced and there’s nothing that sticks out like shrill highs or boomy bass. It kind of sounds like playing a small grand with a closed lid. Anyway, I play through headphones 90% of the time, so I’m perfectly happy with the binaural CFX and is what I mainly got it for, after the great action of course.

Last edited by CyberGene; 02/13/21 05:07 PM.

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I read the N1X has the following speakers :

8 cm x 3 + 13 cm x 2 + 16 cm x 1

The 3x 8cm are on the above (we have 3 openings on the top).

Then it is not clear how the 4 channels are routed. I guess the ear is more sensitive to the direction in the treble, then 3 channels upside + 1 subwoofer could be probable... the two medium speakers can one of the 3 upsides.


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Originally Posted by CyberGene
^ Yamaha uses multichannel sampling that’s also reproduced through corresponding multiple channels/speakers. On the Kawai the sampling is multichannel but it gets mixed down to stereo before being sent to the speakers. I may be wrong but that’s my impression. If that’s indeed the case, it would really be the big deal.

Besides, I’m not even sure the multichannel sampling in Kawai is meant for spatial soundscape. It may rather be a mix of multiple stereo perspectives (close and distant) which is not exactly the same as sampling with 4 microphones and reproducing through 4 channels to create a spatial separation.

Definitely correct on the first point (downsampled to stereo for output); when I opened my NV-10, it's clear that the speakers share the same output leads. I strongly suspect you're spot on for the second as well. The different rendering characters in the NV sound different enough to not be just filters over the same samples, so it would make sense for them to include different mixes to create the different characters.


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https://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D, Yamaha AvantGrand N3X





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Originally Posted by Dave Ferris


That is a real shame frown Only one week old, too. It's too bad you couldn't return it to the dealer (if you're a long-term customer there's a chance they'd make an exception).


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Originally Posted by Dave Ferris
Buyer's remorse?

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Dave, was the N3X put in the same house where you also have your Steinway? If so, no wonder you would prefer the real thing smile I'd take a good acoustic piano over an AvantGrand (or over any other digital piano) any day or night, provided I live in a place where I can play loudly. Which is why I find the N3X concept a bit odd and expensive for what it is. It's certainly a very realistic experience when played through its wonderful speaker system and soundboard but why not an acoustic piano then? I think the N1X is the golden middle ground, especially for people who will play mostly through headphones.


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Originally Posted by Dave Ferris

I apologize for asking (my wife says I can be insensitive sometimes), but would you mind sharing your feelings regarding the N3X and why you felt it wouldn't meet your needs.

I'm sure people are interested and it gives us more stuff to talk about on the forum. smile

Thanks for the consideration.

God Bless,
David


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I don't see how you can find anything else in the form of a hybrid acceptable once you're used to playing a Steinway. The N3X is definitely an odd-ball out, but there's a niche market for it for somebody who must have headphones or volume control at times, but who also wants to play out loud at other times, but can't or don't want to own 2 pianos.

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David has his own studio with a Steinway grand. He is spoiled smile

I mean that in a good way. Dave is one of the few that has been able to make a good living doing what he loves(playing the piano).

I was in the Steinway store in Hinsdale, IL the fall before the pandemic and got to play several Steinway grand pianos. They were wonderful to play.


All these years playing and I still consider myself a novice.
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It's an expensive "note pad". For what I'd primarily be using it for, writing down a chord voicing or harmonic line structure for transposing to all 12 keys that I visualize in my head just sitting there watching TV with my wife --the CP4, or an upgrade to the P-515 so I wouldn't have to mess with phones, would be all I'd really need.

https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=2750388448548724&set=pcb.2750392021881700

My wife Loves the aesthetics of having it in the living room again after all these years but she asked why I haven't been playing it after the first couple days. What can I say ? It's not even a decent to good quality grand, much less what I'm used to putting 2-3 hours a day in on. I play it 5 minutes and say...that's enough, get up, go out to the studio and practice. I thought I'd bond with it more playing some Chopin, Debussy or just playing some Jazz Standards but I'm just too accustomed to a piano. And being very fortunate to own what I do.

Yes, two pianos would be a long term expense to take care of both properly. Discussing a grand for in there but I really question how much use even that will get because we have a small house, she's retired and home all the time like me, the sound would be overwhelming.

I had an S6 in there 15 years ago before the studio was built, she was working out of the house at the time and it caused great conflict because of the highly repetitive nature of my practicing. Transposing a rootless, somewhat atonal 5 note structure chord voicing around the Circle of 4ths can have a Chinese water torture effect on anyone. I wouldn't want to listen to an hour straight of it myself.

I have one friend, a bass player, who's interested in it. I spoke with Pierre about a trade on a Fazioli 212 that he's getting in April. I'd take a hit on the AG on trade but he's giving me a great price on the Fazioli. But of course...whew a lot of dough !!

For the time being, it's just sitting there. Looks great but not being played much, if at all. Seems like sort of a waste and again, a really expensive note pad.

But who knows, I might just end up keeping it if I can't sell it where I won't take a big hit on it.


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Well that makes sense, if you have a proper studio with a Steinway, I get that the benefits of the N3X are less valuable.
I'd be surprised if you don't find someone interested in buying it, given the apparent high demand for pianos those days.

Originally Posted by Volusiano
The N3X is definitely an odd-ball out, but there's a niche market for it for somebody who must have headphones or volume control at times, but who also wants to play out loud at other times, but can't or don't want to own 2 pianos.

Exactly! I don't know for you all but I like being able to turn the volume down when I work some piece, especially when repeating the same bars with a metronome. Then when I want to play for my own pleasure or work on nuances, I turn the volume up. On acoustic the volume control options, to my knowledge at least, tend to impact how you play.

I guess the N3X is in a very specific market position, since it does take space like a real acoustic ... but isn't smaller than regular acoustic grands? I remember my piano teacher advising against very small grands because their sound was usually worse than uprights, so that's where the N3X shines I guess.
Plus, it's pretty grin.


I post piano stuff on my instagram page --> https://www.instagram.com/marchelune smile
I own an old Roland FP-4, looking for a hybrid piano to upgrade to!

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Originally Posted by Dave Ferris
I had an S6 in there 15 years ago before the studio was built, she was working out of the house at the time and it caused great conflict because of the highly repetitive nature of my practicing. Transposing a rootless, somewhat atonal 5 note structure chord voicing around the Circle of 4ths can have a Chinese water torture effect on anyone. I wouldn't want to listen to an hour straight of it myself.

I had to share this with my wife because she made me put my N1X in the basement due to the "Chinese water torture effect" from me practicing all the time and I'm just learning to play the basics.

I shared your quote with my wife and said even professionals can annoy people sometimes with their practicing. It made me feel somewhat vindicated. smile

Thanks for sharing your experience with the N3X. I hope you find a solution that is satisfying.

God Bless,
David


Yamaha AdvantGrand N1X
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