2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad) Piano Sight Reading
train piano sight reading with your iPhone or iPad
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
68 members (ando, Carey, bobrunyan, CaseyVancouver, anotherscott, cfhosford, BeeZee4, 12 invisible), 687 guests, and 440 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 4 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,042
W
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
W
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,042
Originally Posted by bennevis
Originally Posted by Withindale
I see, you qualify as a sight reader only when you can play new pieces with expression and dynamics to a performance level. Playing new pieces through with no mistake is far from sufficient.

To my mind it is the point of departure. One can then work up one's skills to become a master sight reader in the way Bennevis describes.
All students should be able to sight-read very simple stuff within six months.

The ABRSM grade 1 exam (usually taken after one year of lessons) has its sight-reading requiring the candidate to be able to sight-read in the keys of G & F majors and A minor, with hands in any five-finger position plus:
* occasional accidentals (within minor keys only)
• dotted minims to quavers, and rests
• slurs, accents
• mf and mp
• cresc. and dim. hairpins

Thank you Bennevis, nothing could be clearer.

A useful tip from the Harvard Dictionary of Music, "Simple exercises, such as playing an octave, a fifth, a triad ..., without looking at the keys will gradually give you the feeling of tactile security" you want for sight-reading and piano playing in general.


Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 140cm
Ibach, 1905 F-IV, 235cm
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,582
E
EPW Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,582
Also play the Triad chords in root, 1st, 2nd inversions too without looking.


All these years playing and I still consider myself a novice.
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 62
K
KJP_65 Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
K
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 62
Do you continue to practice 5 finger Scales once they are learned and you're practicing Full Octave Scales?

Last edited by KJP_65; 02/16/21 10:24 AM.

02JAN2021: Alesis Recital Pro
22FEB2021: Roland LX705
Using flowkey, Alfred's All-in-1 L1, Faber & Sight-Reading Books
Started: JAN2021 - No Prior background in Music or Piano
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 1
R
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
R
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 1
Here are the general guidelines you will need to make rapid progress at the piano:

1) Practice in short segments. Always practice in segments from half a measure up to 2 measures in length. Never practice by always playing pieces straight through from beginning to end. This is extremely inefficient practice and your progress will be slow. Just focus on small sections.

2) Always practice hands separately until you can combine the hands together. Never, ever start pieces by trying to practice right away hands together. Your technique will progress much more slowly if you're always trying to play hands together from the get go and you will develop numerous bad habits, stress in the hands and wrists, and stuttering.

3) Vary the tempo and include lots of slow practice. Always play musically, but vary the tempo. Sometimes play much faster than the tempo for the piece, but more often play slower. Always vary the tempo.

4) To build your technique, I highly recommend the "two-note" exercises which I find to be much more effective than just about any exercises I've ever seen at building "universal" piano technique. I find them even more beneficial than scales and arpeggios though those are important as well. If you could only have one book of exercises for the piano then this is the one: https://www.sheetmusicplus.com/title/universal-piano-technique-digital-sheet-music/21966949?ac=1

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,925
Gold Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,925
Richterfan, for starters, you will find that your #2, the HS vs. HT camp, is pretty evenly split.


[Linked Image]
Yamaha C3X
In summer, the song sings itself. --William Carlos Williams

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 277
S
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
S
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 277
Originally Posted by bennevis
I don't know why anyone would get confused between "sight-reading" and "reading".

I'm surprised that someone of your experience doesn't know why this confusion occurs. The reason is USAGE.

Everything you say about the definition of sight-reading is correct. But what it overlooks is the fact that in the general musical world, the term "sight-reading" is often used to mean "playing by reading from the notation" as opposed to playing by ear, or memory, or improvising.

This usage is not technically correct of course, but the fact remains it's widespread, even among people who should know better.

On the day I started with my current teacher, I played a piece from the score for her, a fairly challenging piece for a beginner. There were my hand markings and finger numbers all over the place; I played it quite smoothly and it must have been blindingly obvious to her that it was not the first time I'd seen it or played it. And yet when I'd finished it, she asked "did you sight-read that"?

Now I had been playing 80% from memory, looking at my hands a lot (which she noticed), so what she was really asking was "how much did you read that vs. ear / memory". And yet she used the term "sight-reading".

This is from a diploma qualified, CTMusA member teacher. If someone in her role is using the term this way it is no wonder beginners are getting confused. There are numerous other examples easy to find.


Yamaha U1. Yamaha P-45.
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 62
K
KJP_65 Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
K
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 62
@scirocco - that's spot on, I've noticed here that ppl use the term in different ways as well as stating, "don't bother with sight reading now, that's something you'd practice down the road and others say, "start sight-reading now at the beginning, it will help your learning and playing.

One question I had on sight-reading - should this also be done when NOT at the piano, for instance - just pick up the lesson book, sheet music and read through songs by saying the notes either in your head or aloud?

@Stubbie - I've seen that as well here...many, many different opinions on how to begin as a beginner, lots of confusion for the new guy! laugh I appreciate it all and it's why I created the thread.


02JAN2021: Alesis Recital Pro
22FEB2021: Roland LX705
Using flowkey, Alfred's All-in-1 L1, Faber & Sight-Reading Books
Started: JAN2021 - No Prior background in Music or Piano
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,642
W
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
W
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,642
@Scirocco, I have a theory about usage of “sight-reading” to refer to reading music. It’s only a theory. I think Americans often use “sight-reading” to refer to reading music because musicians there did not grow up having to do “sight-reading” for exams. Whereas in commonwealth countries, such as Canada and the UK, we use that phrase specifically to refer to what we are required to do for exams. Since this forum is mainly made up of Americans, the tendency here is to use “sight-reading” to refer to reading music. This is just my theory of course and I could be wrong. I’ve actually never heard anyone in person refer to reading music as sight-reading locally.

Now, since you are in Australia, also with an exam board, your teacher using “sight-reading” to refer to reading music doesn’t fit my theory, of course.

Language also changes over time. If enough people use the term to refer to something (rightly or wrongly) then it will eventually stick. Some linguist told me this years ago. He said if people started referring to babies as balls, after enough time, everyone will be calling them balls.

I’d like to end by saying, although “sight-reading” referring to reading music might be common and become more common as time goes on, at the moment, I still think it’s not entirely correct. Just do a Google search of the term and the accepted meaning is still “at first sight”.

Last edited by WeakLeftHand; 02/17/21 08:38 AM.

Kawai K-500
Casio PX-735 (in retirement)
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,642
W
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
W
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,642
Originally Posted by KJP_65
@scirocco - that's spot on, I've noticed here that ppl use the term in different ways as well as stating, "don't bother with sight reading now, that's something you'd practice down the road and others say, "start sight-reading now at the beginning, it will help your learning and playing.

One question I had on sight-reading - should this also be done when NOT at the piano, for instance - just pick up the lesson book, sheet music and read through songs by saying the notes either in your head or aloud?

@Stubbie - I've seen that as well here...many, many different opinions on how to begin as a beginner, lots of confusion for the new guy! laugh I appreciate it all and it's why I created the thread.

@KJP_65, there are a ton of differing opinions here, aren’t there? Lol. grin This is what you get on an Internet forum. I was thinking, as all these opinions were being posted, poor OP, he must be so confused!

Anyway, I’m sure you’ve got your head screwed on right and can sift through the differing opinions and chart a strategy or method that works for you.

I’ve got only one teacher for piano (I also have a couple teachers for other instruments) so I only have to figure out one opinion! LOL. Saves me a lot of headache. wink

Last edited by WeakLeftHand; 02/17/21 09:01 AM.

Kawai K-500
Casio PX-735 (in retirement)
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 62
K
KJP_65 Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
K
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 62
Originally Posted by WeakLeftHand
Originally Posted by KJP_65
@scirocco - that's spot on, I've noticed here that ppl use the term in different ways as well as stating, "don't bother with sight reading now, that's something you'd practice down the road and others say, "start sight-reading now at the beginning, it will help your learning and playing.

One question I had on sight-reading - should this also be done when NOT at the piano, for instance - just pick up the lesson book, sheet music and read through songs by saying the notes either in your head or aloud?

@Stubbie - I've seen that as well here...many, many different opinions on how to begin as a beginner, lots of confusion for the new guy! laugh I appreciate it all and it's why I created the thread.

@KJP_65, there are a ton of differing opinions here, aren’t there? Lol. grin This is what you get on an Internet forum. I was thinking, as all these opinions were being posted, poor OP, he must be so confused!

Anyway, I’m sure you’ve got your head screwed on right and can sift through the differing opinions and chart a strategy or method that works for you.

I’ve got only one teacher for piano (I also have a couple teachers for other instruments) so I only have to figure out one opinion! LOL. Saves me a lot of headache. wink

It's only been martial arts forums for me until now(only so many ways to hit someone), this is a whole new can of worms...it's a head-full for sure! laugh

Do you practice reading music without the keyboard, as if you're just reading a book?


02JAN2021: Alesis Recital Pro
22FEB2021: Roland LX705
Using flowkey, Alfred's All-in-1 L1, Faber & Sight-Reading Books
Started: JAN2021 - No Prior background in Music or Piano
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,642
W
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
W
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,642
Originally Posted by KJP_65
It's only been martial arts forums for me until now(only so many ways to hit someone), this is a whole new can of worms...it's a head-full for sure! laugh

Do you practice reading music without the keyboard, as if you're just reading a book?

No, I don’t because I learned to read music as a child (treble clef at least), so I’m pretty proficient at it already. However, if you are just starting out, I can see how reading the notes, and thinking to yourself what each note is and what count each note is, away from the piano, might be helpful. Doesn’t hurt to give it a try and see how it works for you.

Oh, I forgot to mention, I do listen to a piece being played while reading the music that goes along with it. This is controversial on this forum but I do it because it helps me learn and understand how music can be interpreted.

Last edited by WeakLeftHand; 02/17/21 09:28 AM.

Kawai K-500
Casio PX-735 (in retirement)
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 62
K
KJP_65 Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
K
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 62
Originally Posted by WeakLeftHand
Originally Posted by KJP_65
It's only been martial arts forums for me until now(only so many ways to hit someone), this is a whole new can of worms...it's a head-full for sure! laugh

Do you practice reading music without the keyboard, as if you're just reading a book?

No, I don’t because I learned to read music as a child (treble clef at least), so I’m pretty proficient at it already. However, if you are just starting out, I can see how reading the notes, and thinking to yourself what each note is and what count each note is, away from the piano, might be helpful. Doesn’t hurt to give it a try and see how it works for you.

Oh, I forgot to mention, I do listen to a piece being played while reading the music that goes along with it. This is controversial on this forum but I do it because it helps me learn and understand how music can be interpreted.


That's basically the same thing then, you're doing that without playing, correct? I did it a few times yesterday and think it may help. I picked up a few more books as well with VERY beginner pieces.

I seem to be more worried about learning theory than learning songs at the moment.

How long have you been playing piano?


02JAN2021: Alesis Recital Pro
22FEB2021: Roland LX705
Using flowkey, Alfred's All-in-1 L1, Faber & Sight-Reading Books
Started: JAN2021 - No Prior background in Music or Piano
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,642
W
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
W
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,642
Originally Posted by KJP_65
That's basically the same thing then, you're doing that without playing, correct? I did it a few times yesterday and think it may help. I picked up a few more books as well with VERY beginner pieces.

I seem to be more worried about learning theory than learning songs at the moment.

How long have you been playing piano?

Yes, no playing. Just listening to the music and looking at the notes.

I learned organ as a child, a couple years in group lessons. Learned a lot of bad habits. I restarted in April 2019 with a proper acoustic piano and good piano teacher. I started all the way from the beginning (Faber method book) and am now RCM level 3.

You need a little bit of theory to get started but not a lot. I did a little bit of theory as a child but have barely touched it upon restarting. I do have 5 levels of RCM theory books waiting for me to dig into eventually.

Last edited by WeakLeftHand; 02/17/21 10:10 AM.

Kawai K-500
Casio PX-735 (in retirement)
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 14,470
B
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 14,470
Originally Posted by scirocco
On the day I started with my current teacher, I played a piece from the score for her, a fairly challenging piece for a beginner. There were my hand markings and finger numbers all over the place; I played it quite smoothly and it must have been blindingly obvious to her that it was not the first time I'd seen it or played it. And yet when I'd finished it, she asked "did you sight-read that"?

Now I had been playing 80% from memory, looking at my hands a lot (which she noticed), so what she was really asking was "how much did you read that vs. ear / memory". And yet she used the term "sight-reading".
Actually, it sounds to me like she was using the term in a rhetorical manner - either praising you or denigrating your playing. (When I was a student, whenever we heard someone playing very badly, we say: "Oh, he's obviously just sight-reading"....and similarly, if we play very badly ourselves, we make the excuse: "I was really sight-reading!" smirk )

Quote
This is from a diploma qualified, CTMusA member teacher. If someone in her role is using the term this way it is no wonder beginners are getting confused. There are numerous other examples easy to find.

All reputable exam boards (in any country) use the term "sight-reading" in music in exactly the same way - look at the syllabi of AMEB, as well as ABRSM, Trinity, RCM, whatever.

You should ask her to define exactly what she means by 'sight-reading'. I am serious - you don't want to keep wondering in the future whether she's being snarky when she asks you whether you were "sight-reading."


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 62
K
KJP_65 Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
K
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 62
Started Scale Practice, C Maj. Full Octave - HS not too difficult, HT difficult! 5 note scale HT I had no issues with but the over/under work with hands together is going to take some time, when one hand goes over or under the other seems to want to follow. crazy


02JAN2021: Alesis Recital Pro
22FEB2021: Roland LX705
Using flowkey, Alfred's All-in-1 L1, Faber & Sight-Reading Books
Started: JAN2021 - No Prior background in Music or Piano
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,642
W
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
W
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,642
Originally Posted by KJP_65
Started Scale Practice, C Maj. Full Octave - HS not too difficult, HT difficult! 5 note scale HT I had no issues with but the over/under work with hands together is going to take some time, when one hand goes over or under the other seems to want to follow. crazy

thumb

Sounds like you're having some good fun practicing!

Last edited by WeakLeftHand; 02/18/21 06:00 PM.

Kawai K-500
Casio PX-735 (in retirement)
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 62
K
KJP_65 Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
K
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 62
Originally Posted by WeakLeftHand
thumb

Sounds like you're you're having some good fun practicing!
Very much so. What the full octave scale taught me was to stick to the 5 note scale on the new ones I'm learning. It was really confusing, the other hand wanted to follow each time one went over or under and once that happened it through it off, I had to slow down quite a bit.

I've downloaded a ton of 2 handed beginner songs to practice with. Each time I feel the difficulty in learning, I watch a few videos of accomplished pianists and am just amazed at what they can do and how effortlessly them make it look.

On a side note, I'm already looking for a nicer piano(see sig), as soon as the weather is a bit better I'm going to see if the local music store has one in stock to go take a look. I'd really like something with a cabinet, not really feeling the keyboard sitting on on a little X stand for some reason.


02JAN2021: Alesis Recital Pro
22FEB2021: Roland LX705
Using flowkey, Alfred's All-in-1 L1, Faber & Sight-Reading Books
Started: JAN2021 - No Prior background in Music or Piano
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,642
W
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
W
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,642
Originally Posted by KJP_65
On a side note, I'm already looking for a nicer piano(see sig), as soon as the weather is a bit better I'm going to see if the local music store has one in stock to go take a look. I'd really like something with a cabinet, not really feeling the keyboard sitting on on a little X stand for some reason.

Looks like you've already contracted the often inevitable GAS. grin


Kawai K-500
Casio PX-735 (in retirement)
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 62
K
KJP_65 Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
K
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 62
Originally Posted by WeakLeftHand
Looks like you've already contracted the often inevitable GAS. grin
ha! I was just watching Stew form Merriam Music on youtube review it, sounds very nice.


02JAN2021: Alesis Recital Pro
22FEB2021: Roland LX705
Using flowkey, Alfred's All-in-1 L1, Faber & Sight-Reading Books
Started: JAN2021 - No Prior background in Music or Piano
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 62
K
KJP_65 Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
K
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 62
1.5 hrs today of sight-reading practice(flowkey) and working on C Maj & A min. HS/HT Scales. Had no idea it went that long until I looked up and saw it was already 7am.

Practiced 3x yesterday. So far I haven't missed a single day of practice since starting last month. More days than not are multiple practice sessions and couple of 10-15 min. sessions of just going through what I know of the songs I want to currently learn... now there are 4 smile way out of my current skill set but I'm having fun slowly learning them.


02JAN2021: Alesis Recital Pro
22FEB2021: Roland LX705
Using flowkey, Alfred's All-in-1 L1, Faber & Sight-Reading Books
Started: JAN2021 - No Prior background in Music or Piano
Page 4 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Moderated by  BB Player 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Couch to Concert Hall
Couch to Concert Hall
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
The Logo of the Future - Steingraeber
by Skjalg - 04/19/21 10:47 AM
Practuce With Czerny
by BbAltered - 04/19/21 10:05 AM
What to check when getting a new piano
by Dong Huynh - 04/19/21 05:13 AM
Standchen which version of sheet music ?
by jzmeister1 - 04/19/21 03:47 AM
Strings termination
by Guido, Roma - Italy - 04/19/21 03:04 AM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics206,394
Posts3,084,083
Members101,239
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5