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In my still rudimentary assessment of Wall EQ gating the output, I sense that it provides a graduatrd gating of all frequencies, gating most in the lower frequencies, and less all the way to up even i suspect until 800hz region where it gets less perceptible and maybe gone by 1-2khz. So this feels like a high pass filter maybe gentle first order.

This therefore doesn't sound and function the same as 4 band parametric which is Tone Control. Will remain just my suspicion until someone with technical knowledge confirms it. Also if the design is as straightforward as applying a high pass with simple graduated effect like first order, it won't be just tuned for CA-79 or CA-99 but would be just a general audio gating effect applicable to all.

For my against wall placement, I find that tone control Gating maximum of -6dB isn't enough. There is still significant sub 80hx output that needs cutting cos. acoustics don't generate so much low sonic output. I switched to Wall EQ gating instead to provide the baseline gradual gating, then boosted low bass +3dB for now.

The cabinet vibrations whether with Wall EQ or not, does not feel as strong as a kawai K8 upright piano, and I will try to compare with grands soon. This we can't recreate with settings. Only maybe sound boards can generate such effect (excessively applied on CA-99).

My config gives still a little too much brightness of classic pianist at C4-C5 region, and after I get to compare with acoustic grand, I may still need to cut high-mid centering at about 2kHz by about -2 to -3 dB.

I tried to calibrate volume:. Conclusion is, I can't seem to obtain the ff fff ffff brightness no matter how hard I hit on the keys. When I changed touch by 1 step from normal to light, immediately when I try to play ff I get the extra brightness. Maybe it became too light and this brightness should only come at fff effort. In not experienced enough to tell and need to try out on a grand to compare. So it seems odd that normal touch curve doesn't allow high velocity brightness until a high velocity that I am not able to execute.

After setting the above, I find the closest match to a kawai K8 upright volume output is: volume dial at 1 o'clock position. It gives about 80.5dB at mid register with mf dynamics. This rolls off in high register and gets a bit hard to compare with the acoustic K8 but it achieved similar output at about 76dB at high register. Low register tends to be louder so it replicated quite well about 82-83dB.

At ff-fff it got it to reasonably replicate the K8 volume: from 85-86dB at low register to 84 dB at mid register, towards 80-82 dB at high register. I don't dare say I know how loud a 6 foot or 9 foot grand should achieve but I suspect grands would be louder than acoustics? If so theoretically we expect even higher outputs, and NV-10 might not be able to generate it well (and we'll be deafened playing this at home).

At softs ppp-p I managed to get somewhat lower volume output from NV-10 than the K8: can try to produce 55-65 dB range a little more reliably than I can with K8. All this while keeping volume knob steady at 1 o'clock position.

The volume of 79dB that Falsch mentioned would be achieved when playing somewhere between mp & mf.

Oddly if I used Wall EQ with low band -6dB, I have to turn up to 2.45pm on the volume knob to try getting the above output. Quite a drastic difference from 1 o'clock that I got with Wall EQ and +3 dB low boost.

Last edited by kailord; 02/12/21 07:35 PM.
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Originally Posted by kailord
The volume of 79dB that Falsch mentioned would be achieved when playing somewhere between mp & mf.

Note that I don't calibrate for mp/mf volume; I calibrate for maximum volume, and maximum strength I'm comfortable to use on a keyboard. I have played organs up to 2015, and they don't need a very heavy touch, especially the Hammond. If you press a key for 2mm, it will sound.

Therefore I'm not comfortable hitting a keyboard very hard. (I don't know how much force the keys and hammers can take...). Also, I don't want my instrument to be extremely loud.

Thus, calibration is easy for me... I set the instrument to full volume, and then play the keyboard as loud/hard as I'm comfortable with. The NV10, with the dB-meter set on the music stand, generates 103 dB in this situation. As I said earlier, it may go higher, if I'd play the keyboard harder; but I don't want to.

Then, I just start dialing the volume knob back until the meter shows +/- 79 dB at the loudest volume. Tomorrow, I'll try to measure what the ppp volume is at this setting.

With these writings, take into account that I do not have a reference to any acoustic piano. That 79 dB @ fff is my very own personal setting. All of my organs always were set at 79 dB, the MP7, the LX-17, and now the NV10. Everything else sounds "wrong"; either too loud, or too soft, be they digital or acoustic instruments.

Last edited by Falsch; 02/12/21 08:23 PM.

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Originally Posted by timitalia
Originally Posted by timitalia
* When the instrument is turned on and "silent", meaning not played, I hear a periodically recurring, annoying low electronic noise. This buzz, interrupted with pauses, comes directly from the speaker at the front bottom, behind the pedal rods.

The technician has identified the mainboard as the source of the error and will order and install a new mainboard.

Did you the replacement mainboard resolve this issue? I have the same problem and found out this is due to interference from the bluetooth function. When I disable the bluetooth from the main menu the recurring noise goes away. Unfortunately, the piano does not save the new settings and every time I turn the unit on I need to access the menu to do this over and over again.

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Originally Posted by nice2care
Originally Posted by timitalia
Originally Posted by timitalia
* When the instrument is turned on and "silent", meaning not played, I hear a periodically recurring, annoying low electronic noise. This buzz, interrupted with pauses, comes directly from the speaker at the front bottom, behind the pedal rods.

The technician has identified the mainboard as the source of the error and will order and install a new mainboard.

Did you the replacement mainboard resolve this issue? I have the same problem and found out this is due to interference from the bluetooth function. When I disable the bluetooth from the main menu the recurring noise goes away. Unfortunately, the piano does not save the new settings and every time I turn the unit on I need to access the menu to do this over and over again.

No fortunately I could "solve" it before the mainboard was ordered since navindra gave me the crucial hint:

The interference sound isn't a defect, unfortunately normal behavior. This sound only occurs when bluetooth is turned on and the device is waiting to pair with another device. Once it is paired with something or if you turn bluetooth off as you wrote, the interference sound is gone. Too bad (because annoying) that one can't save the Bluetooth OFF Setting with a favorite.

In the meantime, regarding my Scratching Sound Issue, I found out that it is also present without Wall EQ ON and also not only in the lows faintly but perceptibly. Wall EQ ON only amplifies it.

I am also already in exchange with other owners who have the same problem and where it has suddenly ceased to occur due to a replacement unit.

I will keep you updated!

Last edited by timitalia; 02/13/21 08:57 AM.
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Wait ... the piano makes noise ... but that's not a defect? That's normal? What?
Originally Posted by timitalia
No fortunately I could "solve" it before the mainboard was ordered since navindra gave me the crucial hint:

The interference sound isn't a defect, unfortunately normal behavior. This sound only occurs when bluetooth is turned on and the device is waiting to pair with another device. Once it is paired with something or if you turn bluetooth off as you wrote, the interference sound is gone. Too bad (because annoying) that one can't save the Bluetooth OFF Setting with a favorite.
That's a defect. Noise is not normal.

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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Wait ... the piano makes noise ... but that's not a defect? That's normal? What?
Originally Posted by timitalia
No fortunately I could "solve" it before the mainboard was ordered since navindra gave me the crucial hint:

The interference sound isn't a defect, unfortunately normal behavior. This sound only occurs when bluetooth is turned on and the device is waiting to pair with another device. Once it is paired with something or if you turn bluetooth off as you wrote, the interference sound is gone. Too bad (because annoying) that one can't save the Bluetooth OFF Setting with a favorite.
That's a defect. Noise is not normal.

This sits in the category "if I can't hear it, it's not there." Just like my father, who happily lived in a living room with an incessantly whistling light bulb (I didn't visit him until that light bulb finally went out forever and got replaced).

*EVERY* high-powered speaker I ever had started hissing when you set them loud enough. It was true at least for the following:

- The subwoofer in my Roland Atelier organ.
- And the one in the Hammond XH-200 organ.
- The subwoofer of my audio system.
- My laptop headphone amp (the Dragonfly), which for its size is immensely powerful.

Bluetooth (and even microwaves...) interfere with speakers.

- My Atelier organ started buzzing when the microwave was on while the organ was on.
- Computer speakers picking up the scan of the bluetooth receiver/sender I had connected at some time. I had this myself.
- Some people hear the same bluetooth beep/buzz I heard in the computer, when the NV10 is not paired to another device and bluetooth is on. (Maybe my NV10 does that as well, but I have BT turned off since day one. I'd have to check.)

Computer speakers and audio out also pick up electrical interference from other components in the same device.

- I can *hear* my laptop scrolling, when I plug a sensitive headphone (HD 598) or canal-phones (Shure SE 315) in the headphone out. The headphone out picks up the screen refresh. When I connect the Dragonfly, it's still there, but much softer.
- Know what? The NV10 does the same thing. When I connect either the HD 598 or the SE 315, I can hear the touchscreen refreshing while I scroll... can't hear it in the speakers of the piano though. If I connect a much less sensitive headphone such as my Bose QC II noise canceling headphone, I can't hear it either. Not sensitive enough. But *WAIT*... in that headphone, you hear a soft hiss, when noise cancelling is ON but you're not playing any music.
- Some computers have such poor sound circuitry that they can even pick up the movement of the mouse...

Should I go on with anything that can be wrong with electrical equipment, radiation, and sound equipment?

- Coil whine on graphics cards and mainboards, which you can either hear directly, or through the speakers, especially when a graphics card is rendering much faster than the screen can keep up with.
- The microphone circuitry on a computer can pick up the sound of a spinning hard disk.
- Some wireless baby phones can either interfere with one another: sound, image, or both... or interfere with other audio/video equipment or experience interference themselves.

If you would want to eliminate all of this in every product, then these would become massively huge (due to layers of shielding, and extra filtering) and massively expensive.

Some problems can be eliminated.
Some problems can be lessened.
Some problems can only be worked around.


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Updated and new Video about the Scratching / Hissing / Distortion Sound Issue:

NEW: https://youtu.be/2dYOJ0la6KY
UPDATED: https://youtu.be/YjCO2TFsIbI


This is a bit sad, actually I should already enjoy my new instrument to the fullest on the weekend, instead I spend time documenting the problem and together with other owners who experience the same to research information about the possible causes.

Since I reported it only recently, my confidence in KAWAI and KAWAI Service Germany is still very high. I also hope that James can provide me with useful information about the (also to him throughout this forum by other users) known problem. All in all, I expect that the responsible component on my unit will be replaced quickly or that I will receive an entire new unit quickly.

Please don't get me wrong, the linked videos I uploaded are not because I am unsure and want to know from you fellows if it is a defect or not: For me and other owners, it exists and is a problem. The videos are to exchange with those owners who have a similar or exactly the same problem.

I can only congratulate all owners who do not have the problem or who do not perceive the disturbing noise through their ears (such a thing is said to exist, noises of a certain frequency are not perceived).

To the problem itself: it is not so easy to describe the noise with words, besides, English is not my native language. I have chosen "Scratching / Hissing / Sound Distortion". At first I thought it occurs only when Wall EQ is set to ON, but it is not so. It is always present over the upper speakers, and is only amplified by Wall EQ ON. It is best heard in the lower registers (upper left speakers) but can also be heard in the mid and higher registers. and it seems to occur randomly in its intensity, sometimes sounding more distinctly and sometimes more indistinctly, but constant in sum.

I know that the samples of the Novus 10 also simulate the sounds of the strings and the soundbox and whatever of the SK-EX Concert Grand, which I think is great and also hear. The disturbing noises I mean but have nothing to do with it.

Last edited by timitalia; 02/14/21 10:10 AM.
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Originally Posted by timitalia
Too bad (because annoying) that one can't save the Bluetooth OFF Setting with a favorite.

But it can be saved in the startup favorite.

My startup favorite switches off both midi and audio Bluetooth on my NV10.


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Originally Posted by JoBert
Originally Posted by timitalia
Too bad (because annoying) that one can't save the Bluetooth OFF Setting with a favorite.

But it can be saved in the startup favorite.

My startup favorite switches off both midi and audio Bluetooth on my NV10.

Thank JoBart for pointing this out. I was looking for this solution for some time now.

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It seems the favorites in the NV-10 behave in an unexpected way.

When I start the NV-10, the first favorite is loaded, and this works. When I switch to a different favorite, the sound changes, so that works. However, when switching to the Pianist tab (just after I switched to the second favorite), the NV-10 sounds as if favorite 1 was still loaded.

Am I correct in thinking that the NV-10 loads the first favorite in the Pianist tab, and then keeps it there, even when you switch to a different favorite? In that case, how do you actually *edit* a specific favorite without starting over? I could of course put that favorite in the first position, then turn the NV-10 off and on again, but that feels like a work-around.

The MP7 had similar problems / behavior. It seems Kawai needs someone in their department who is able to program a consistent sate machine blush


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Unfortunately, you cannot edit a favorite.


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Originally Posted by JoBert
Unfortunately, you cannot edit a favorite.
I load the favourite, edit, save under different name, delete old favourite.

I'm still trying to figure out which gets autoloader upon boot up. I think it's the first one. So I make the one I like best become the first one using above manner.

Falsh: be sure not to touch the NV until after the screen fully starts up, else weird behaviour can occur.

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Originally Posted by JoBert
Unfortunately, you cannot edit a favorite.

I have to test this, but I think my workaround may work. When I start the NV10, and then switch to the Pianist tab and then to settings, the bluetooth settings are off, just as they were when I saved the favorite. I'd need to create another favorite with bluetooth settings on, and then test if the settings are off or on, depending on which favorite sits at the first spot.

If the NV10 loads all the parameters as set by the favorite in spot 1, and the Pianist (and other tabs) reflect this, then it would be possible to edit a favorite by temporarily putting it in spot 1 and then turning the NV10 off and on again. Even though I think that's lame... the entire instrument should reflect the settings as loaded by the favorite. Even my 1997 Hammond XH-200 could do that. When loading a registration from the organ (or from disk) which actually had 16 presets (piston buttons), you could see the entire organ change settings when pressing one of the pistons; screen, lights, everything. The only thing that did change internally but not visibly, where the physical drawbars. (And as soon as you touched a single drawbar, all drawbar settings would change to what was set on the organ at that time.)

Not being able to edito a favorite is... weird. And inconvenient.


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Originally Posted by kailord
Originally Posted by JoBert
Unfortunately, you cannot edit a favorite.
I load the favourite, edit, save under different name, delete old favourite.

Doesn't work. If you load a favorite, the settings change internally, but when you then switch to the pianist tab, the tab has different settings. As I said; it seems the Pianist tab loads the settings of the first favorite (the startup one), and then gets uncoupled. If you change favorites while the piano is on, the settings change, but the one in the Pianist tab don't.

Quote
I'm still trying to figure out which gets autoloader upon boot up. I think it's the first one. So I make the one I like best become the first one using above manner.

Yes, it's the first one. It's in the manual.


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I calibrated against a yamaha C1X grand, and a kawai K8 upright.

The upright measured a higher about 3 dB output than the grand from the perspective of the player, maybe because player is physically nearer to the strings cabinet. So instead I used the C1X as the main calibration reference since NV10 sound output is meant to simulate a grand. K8 upright ended up being just an FYI for comparison.

mf measured to be about 77dB at C4 region and can go up to 83dB for ff, and beyond. Thr bass response, despite my placement of NV10 against a wall, was not good with Wall EQ On - it produced a weakish bass that needed + dB low band boosting and it may be better audio principles to do parametric EQ cutting rather than boosting.

So I switched wall EQ off, volume dial set at 1 o'clock cut low band parametric EQ to -4dB. Other bands are flat. This produced a similar output to the grand, and tonality is a more sonorous bass than the C1X grand, since I imagine an SK-EX grand would likely be deeper in bass than C1X. The sound so far is nice, I'll need to blindfold myself more to see how to recreate the grand sound where some sound appears to emanate from points a few feet in front of me instead of directly out of front speakers. Maybe reverb etc could be strategically edited.

Next I will calibrate against kawai SK grand, see if I can fine tune further.

Noticed a setting for Speaker output where u can select Normal or Low (make the volume softer overall). Wonder how useful this could be ...

So far NV10 is living up to expectations. Maybe I'll get a chance to compare with N3X in a showroom.

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Originally Posted by timitalia
Updated and new Video about the Scratching / Hissing / Distortion Sound Issue:

NEW: https://youtu.be/2dYOJ0la6KY
UPDATED: https://youtu.be/YjCO2TFsIbI


This is a bit sad, actually I should already enjoy my new instrument to the fullest on the weekend, instead I spend time documenting the problem and together with other owners who experience the same to research information about the possible causes.

Since I reported it only recently, my confidence in KAWAI and KAWAI Service Germany is still very high. I also hope that James can provide me with useful information about the (also to him throughout this forum by other users) known problem. All in all, I expect that the responsible component on my unit will be replaced quickly or that I will receive an entire new unit quickly.

Please don't get me wrong, the linked videos I uploaded are not because I am unsure and want to know from you fellows if it is a defect or not: For me and other owners, it exists and is a problem. The videos are to exchange with those owners who have a similar or exactly the same problem.

I can only congratulate all owners who do not have the problem or who do not perceive the disturbing noise through their ears (such a thing is said to exist, noises of a certain frequency are not perceived).

To the problem itself: it is not so easy to describe the noise with words, besides, English is not my native language. I have chosen "Scratching / Hissing / Sound Distortion". At first I thought it occurs only when Wall EQ is set to ON, but it is not so. It is always present over the upper speakers, and is only amplified by Wall EQ ON. It is best heard in the lower registers (upper left speakers) but can also be heard in the mid and higher registers. and it seems to occur randomly in its intensity, sometimes sounding more distinctly and sometimes more indistinctly, but constant in sum.

I know that the samples of the Novus 10 also simulate the sounds of the strings and the soundbox and whatever of the SK-EX Concert Grand, which I think is great and also hear. The disturbing noises I mean but have nothing to do with it.

I listened via the computer speakers and three different headphones and the result is always the same: in the first video there is a low-volume pop around second 17, and then some clipping around second 30 because the volume is higher than something in the audio chain could deal with (perhaps the microphone to capture, or youtube to record, or my audio card to reproduce -- I'm pretty sure it's not my headphones because I can push them at much higher volumes without clipping). In the highest quality headphones I have, the SHP9500, there is a bit of background noise which you could call hiss (fruscio), but that's continuous all the way, and more evident if you do NOT play (like in all amplifiers at high enough volume, as someone else wrote in this thread). I suspect that's not what you are complaining about, are you? I think technically you can call that hiss white noise: https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumore_bianco
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_noise (obviously it's not that loud).

My hardware:
- Intel Corporation 8 Series/C220 Series Chipset High Definition Audio Controller (rev 04)
- Inexpensive earbuds
- SuperLux HD-681
- Philips SHP9500

Sorry to be pedantic, timitalia, but I don't recall you stating that you listened to these recordings FROM YOUTUBE (and if so with what hardware) and could identify the problem, and if so at what time was it "bad" and at what time was it "good" (if there is any time in which it is good).

Now don't get me wrong: I am not saying this is not a problem. It's just that the video does not demonstrate any problem FOR ME. It could be my ears, but I suspect it's something else in the chain. Perhaps you can upload the FLAC (or WAV) of a shorter capture in Google Drive or Dropbox, so we eliminate the compression and the youtube factor, and anybody who wants can easily play that on different devices (for example I could play it in my Yamaha NU1) and hence try different sound card and speakers too.

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Originally Posted by Del Vento
[...] I am not saying this is not a problem. It's just that the video does not demonstrate any problem FOR ME. It could be my ears, but I suspect it's something else in the chain. Perhaps you can upload the FLAC (or WAV) of a shorter capture in Google Drive [...]

I don't think we need to get so technical. I am not a sound engineer. It was confirmed to me by many as audible in the video, but I'd like to help you out. The „White noise“ you are referring to, which is surly also heard in the video, is not the noise it is about.

It's actually audible all the time while playing tones in this video https://youtu.be/2dYOJ0la6KY The thing is that as I wrote before, it varies in intensity seemingly randomly. You can hear it for example well between the seconds 0:20 and 0:27, when I repeat this one tone. It's a bit like someone accompanying in parallel with a quiet children's rattle (filled with finer rice). Regarding the intensity change I mentioned, you can hear within this section that it pauses briefly somewhere between second 0:23 and 0:24, although I continue to strike in the same manner undiminished.

I am also happy to share another audio file with you: https://drive.google.com/file/d/17d9bcbH2so__Oeb7rWEjX3ipu6ljEX6q/view?usp=sharing

Once again, the tip: With simple in-ear headphones such as Apple's AirPods, you can hear it most clearly in the videos and audio files...

I would say don't go crazy if you still can't hear it or it doesn't bother you. Then I would say: Lucky you!

Last edited by timitalia; 02/17/21 07:31 AM.
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What I do hear in the last video you posted, is some sort of whistling / ringing noise (it sounds a bit like "whiii"), when you keep the key pressed down and the piano tone dies out. Is that it? This could very well be the string resonance of the highest 1.5 octave, as these strings aren't damped. This noise would be normal for higher end digitals, as they simulate the acoustic behavior.


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Sorry, but this sounds just like a piano to me.

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I don't hear anything out of the ordinary in either video/audio either. But I may not know what to listen for...


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