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I think this is not the sort of email that one sends when they want the transaction to proceed. I agree with gwing that they are not comfortable in this situation, and it takes two to tango.

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Originally Posted by Hakki
The warranty is provided by Kawai not the dealer. There won't be any problems.
It seems the dealer is likely this warranty executor...
In general it is better to clarify how the warranty will be executed before the purchase.


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Buy a good used piano inspected by your preferred tech. Buy from a person you trust, if possible.

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From Kawai Austrlia website:

Quote
6. What is done to prepare my new piano for delivery?

Your new Kawai piano will have the Preparation Checklist carried out prior to delivery. A grand piano contains some 10,000 parts, and will have had a long journey from our manufacturing facilities to your retailer. The Preparation Checklist is our assurance that the piano has has not been damaged before it was unboxed and that it arrives at your home or studio in top condition. It is also your assurance that the piano has been properly initialised before you sit down to play. The checklist is printed on the back of your Kawai Acoustic Piano Warranty Card, and will be signed and dated by both the retailer, and the technician who carried out the service. You’ll find the full text of the Preparation Checklist on the second page of the warranty card, here.

Then you register your warranty. And you are good to go:

https://kawai.com.au/owners/register/

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There is no one I can trust. I live in umbelivably small town. I am not living in a big city like Seoul or Tokyo

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As I understand it the dealer is responsible for providing warranty work on most brands. I’ve bought 4 different new pianos from 2 different dealers and never had a warranty issue. My first tunings after purchase I was given a discount or free tunings from the shop’s technician and fortunately he was wonderful. When he unexpectedly retired, I called the dealer and he recommended two different exceptional technicians and I’m very happy with my new technician. My Yamaha warranty previously and my Estonia warranty do not specify that I have to use Yamaha or Estonia certified technicians for normal tunings and maintenance. I’d PM KawaiDon about who can provide maintenance on a new Kawai piano.


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Originally Posted by tony3304
There is 2001 made Kawai RX2 in other town. The price $11,000 cheaper than this GX2 but warranty is just 1 year. As I never had any problem in piano regarding warranty issues that hardly happen, I am quite suspicious that I should consider future things. I am not sure what will happen to me in 10 year.
Go play it. If you like it, get a tech YOU trust to evaluate it, and make your decision from there. That’s what I would do.


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Buy the RX-2 if you like and the technician you like does.
It's $11k cheaper than the other one, so even if there will problems (which I doubt if you inspect it properly), you will have quite a bit of money to fix it.

Last, you seem to be worried about soundboard cracking. Soundboards crack because of extreme dry conditions in your house, not manufacturing problems. And AFAIK, because of that reason, they are not covered under warranty.

Speak with your money. The dealer wants your money more than you want their piano.

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Originally Posted by Del Vento
Last, you seem to be worried about soundboard cracking. Soundboards crack because of extreme dry conditions in your house, not manufacturing problems. And AFAIK, because of that reason, they are not covered under warranty.
Although rare on a new piano, the soundboard or any part of a piano can have a problem that's not a result of extremely low humidity. I've never heard of a soundboard or any part of a piano not being covered unless the seller can show the piano was subject to improper care which can include extremes of humidity or temperature.

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I have a question for the OP and it's been bothering me since I started reading this thread. AFAICS, the distrust issue came about because you asked the Kawai tech to fix a "false beat" and he "ruined" the piano in the process. (I'm not going to get into all the possibilities here/now). You then had a Yamaha tech come in and he corrected the problem. Correct me if I am wrong on any of the above synopsis please.

My question is: Did the Yamaha tech actually eliminate the "false beat" in addition to "fixing" what the Kawai tech did? OR did he simply "fix" what the Kawai tech did? (Okay two questions).

Thanks

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Hello, Tony, and I'm so sorry this unusual situation has come up. The dealer initially agreed to allowing you to use your own technician, whom you like and have confidence in. Now, they've changed their decision and demand/require that you use their tech, with whom you've had a bad experience(s) with in the past, or the warranty on the piano will be voided. They are now twisting your arm to get you to comply to their terms in order to sell you the new Kawai GX2. It is a dilemma, indeed.

I'm not sure how to advice you, but reading through all the posts here, I do agree that if you buy the new GX2, and there is a warranty issue, you will indeed have to go through the dealer for any warranty service. I have read many times that most manufactures will not deal directly with customers (or even answer their emails or calls), and always direct them back to the dealer, who is their primary agent, for warranty issues, or any issue.

Here is what I believe that I would do, if I were you, and I really liked and wanted the new GX2; I'd try to meet with the Kawai reps at the dealer, along with the authorized tech, whom you say you had bad experiences with, and you do not like his professional demeanor or services, and tell them exactly how you feel and why, and see if there is any possibility of making amends or reconciliation with the tech, or getting them to relent just a bit on their demands, and allow you to use your own tech.

Is it possible at all that you could work with him (the dealer's tech), in any capacity, if needed? If that is possible, then I'd proceed with the purchase of the GX2, if you really like it, well enough to go through a hassle like this.

If not, and you feel strongly that you wish to part ways with the dealer's authorized tech, and never have to deal with him again, then I'd be inclined to go elsewhere and look more closely at the pre-owned RX2 in another nearby town, and continue to use your own tech.

I've meet people before, and had bad experiences with them, and because of that I never wanted to deal with them again, under any circumstances.

You've got until Saturday to make up your mind, and the ball is in your court, so to speak; you accept their terms regarding the after sale service tech requirements, or no deal. Since you are very sensitive to piano tone, and touch, and the quality of the sound, it might be in your best interest to stay with tech you like best, if that is possible, even if it means not buying the new GX2.

Keep in mind, however, as you've mentioned, major component failures and warranty issues rarely occur, that require major repair or replacement. It is the little things that are not covered under the warranty that seem to be the most irritating to new piano owners. Usually the dealer will take care of these things as a post-sale curtesy.

At the end of the day, you are the one who needs to be happy and satisfied with your new piano.

Good luck!

Rick


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Originally Posted by tony3304
There is no one I can trust. I live in umbelivably small town. I am not living in a big city like Seoul or Tokyo
I have read the Kawai warranty document. It states that any warranty claim must first be advised to the dealer who has the responsibility to repair or replace. It also states that Kawai will not be responsible for any action that an independant technician (and possibly including a dealer technician) undertakes during the warranty period. It does not say that an independant technician cannot be used for maintenance or tuning during the warranty period.

Be aware that voicing is not a destructive process. It is a process that not all tuners are specialist in. Voicing a hammer is done to affect the tone and done by inserting needles in specific parts of the hammer felt depending on the desired effect. If the needling voicing is overdone it usually results in a softer sound (which you have found) but apart from playing for hours (as you have done) the hammer felt can be firmed within minutes by a technician applying a liquid solution.

However when technicians work on a hammer to eliminate tuning issues (not false beats) it is done by first ensuring that all strings in a unison group are level then to ensure the hammer is square to the strings at the time of impact, then prepare the face of the hammer with regards its shape and lastly to mate the hammer face to the strings so that all strings produce the same energy when struck. Even if all three strings are tuned to the same frequency if the aforementioned process is not carried out the note when struck can sound as if there are false beats.

With all that said, and as others here have said, individual strings can have 'false beats'. These can be caused by imperfections in the wire, e.g. a kink when being installed, or a problem at the terminations of the string. My Blüthner despite costing 20,000 UK Pounds has some strings with false beats which I only hear when I am tuning, but I can make slight tuning changes to the other strings of the same note to minimise the effect.

I do hope you get your piano.
Ian


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My tech says that voicing *can* be a destructive process. Voicing is his specialty and he was reluctant to take me on after another tech had voiced my piano as he said that needling to the hammers changes the felts and they will not respond in the same way as an unvoiced hammer. That said, I don't think there's any harm in letting their tech work on your piano as long as they don't do any voicing.

This dealer obviously views you as a difficult customer. I think they may be afraid that you will have some complaint about your piano after receiving it and want it covered under warranty. Even if you bought this piano, would you ever be able to let go of the negative feelings associated with the transaction? I have an item where the buying process was really bad, and many many years later I still remember it every time I use the item. Actually now that I think of it, maybe I should replace it with so that I stop feeling icky whenever I use it!

Do you have time to go play the RX2 before Saturday and see if you like it? There are still other pianos out there if you can be patient.


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I would be patient and wait for a better piano. Let this one go. In all likelihood, you can find a better piano for less money with more certainty and more freedom.

A digital piano can be lovely to own in addition to any acoustic piano you buy in the future. I own a Technics SX PR 53 from around 1998 and it is far superior to many regular pianos. Suppose you play a concerto, you can record the orchestra's part on the electronic piano. Then play the soloist's part on your acoustic piano (which you buy later after more consideration) while the recording is playing.

I think you need to do more research into your purpose for wanting a grand piano. It may be more important to put money into further instruction, and far more fun too. I've had over nineteen years of lessons and would rather spend money on lessons than more piano.

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Yamaha tech fixed what Kawai tech did and fixed false beat partly (probably 80%)

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I fot this reply from the dealer this morning


I can understand your concerns as a customer having had a previous bad experience with XXX, I truly want to make this work for everyone involved. XXX is the Kawai Certified Technician in Christchurch, Kawai have handpicked XXX to tune and maintain any one of their piano in the region, not using him for any technical issues regarding your piano or even tuning can make your Kawai 12 year warranty void. “Improper repair or maintenance” would cover using a piano technician who is not Kawai certified technician.

So it means I am obliged to use XXX to do on Kawai GX2 for 12 years , or warranty will be voided

Last edited by tony3304; 01/28/21 04:42 PM.
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I think you should move on. They clearly do not want you to be their customer and you will be stuck in a relationship with them/their tech for 12 years if you want to keep the warranty.


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They are bluffing.

Buy the new GX-2.

Have them do the setup and first tuning.

Get the signed warranty.

Register it.

And proceed with your tuner.

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Originally Posted by twocats
I think you should move on. They clearly do not want you to be their customer and you will be stuck in a relationship with them/their tech for 12 years if you want to keep the warranty.

Rickster correctly told you most things are not warranty work but small uncovered things the dealer will usually address as a courtesy. You do not have that type of relationship with this dealer, so if you buy this piano, you shouldn’t have any expectations with the small things you find. They will strictly adhere to the warranty.

Time to move on or be prepared for 12 years of contention.


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
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I've just talked with the piano shop owner who has 2001 Kawai RX2. He is a piano technician as well. The shop is in Wellington which is in North Island. He said the shop is doing insane and illegal deal

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