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Originally Posted by Chernobieff Piano
I really enjoyed the UPS truck and the Dog biting the tires story!!!

-chris


And if the dog ever really got ahold of the truck, it wouldn't be pretty. Kinda like what happened to 411 I'm afraid. I think he just needs a friend, but bad attention is better than no attention. frown


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Originally Posted by David Boyce
Definitely a strange one. Some mental issues.

I hope Piano411 reads these messages and wakes up a little. Hopefully he gets some professional help before he comes back with a new profile. Many piano technicians, including myself, have a few screws loose in our heads but most of us are harmless crazies.

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After about a month of it I started to suspect Aspergers Syndrome. After 3 months I am more sure than ever. However, I don't think that is entirely it since there is also an element of intentional evasion which is something else. If (s)he could harness (bridle) the tendency to lash out at people (rudeness), and recognize that others have valid viewpoints too and kindly acknowledge them, (s)he could have been a real asset.

Teachers and doctors are often judged not by their knowledge base, but by their ability to communicate and show empathy. That applies in other fields as well. But if in fact Aspergers Syndrome is involved, this can be difficult in the extreme.

Just my .02

Peter Grey Piano Doctor


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Originally Posted by P W Grey
After about a month of it I started to suspect Aspergers Syndrome. After 3 months I am more sure than ever. However, I don't think that is entirely it since there is also an element of intentional evasion which is something else. If (s)he could harness (bridle) the tendency to lash out at people (rudeness), and recognize that others have valid viewpoints too and kindly acknowledge them, (s)he could have been a real asset.

Teachers and doctors are often judged not by their knowledge base, but by their ability to communicate and show empathy. That applies in other fields as well. But if in fact Aspergers Syndrome is involved, this can be difficult in the extreme.

Just my .02

Peter Grey Piano Doctor

My 50th of a semitone ( 2 cents wink )

There is a story about Bess Truman being told by her friends that they really like her husband Harry, the President, but couldn't she stop him from using the word "manure" all the time? Her response was, Stop him? You wouldn't believe what it took to get him to use that word!

You would not tell a person without hands that they need to learn to shake hands like everyone else. You wouldn't say you "know how they feel" because you once had a splinter and couldn't shake hands. But after going to a doctor, it did heal, and they should do the same.

There is a difference between being injured and being maimed. The outrageous actions we saw come from 411 are likely a coping strategy for something that just can't be fixed. He probably doesn't like what he is and what he does, but like the rest of us, does what he can with what he has. damhik

Still, this was not a healthy place for him to be, neither for him nor for us. Banning was a good thing all around.

THANKS MODERATORS!!! Probably time to lock this Topic. Doesn't have anything to do with pianos anymore, and time to put the episode behind us. smile


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Originally Posted by piano411
Thanks for doing the video. It makes it easier to narrow in to what people are doing and thinking about.

What I see is that around 0:30, the jaws on the right of the vice move, but I can see the white string at the foot move with the head. So, I don't see a twist happening there. The top of the pin might be deflecting in other parts of the video, but it comes back with the pressure is released. If you look at the fingers, the end of the hammer appears to rotate upwards, which would be a flagging issue. A twist would, if anything, make the handle appear to go downwards.

However, for this to be a tuning issue, this twist needs to somehow get trapped in the block. What happens above the block goes away when the pressure is gone.

The other issue is that the vice is already much in access of the 100 inch/lbs. The point is that the vice is already outside the normal working range of the forces that we use.
I'm agree with =piano411], only we can see sick jaws there.

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Agreed

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I agree to locking this thread now, plus your video is WAY better than mine!! LOL

All the best. (piano411 included if he's reading)


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Quote
However, I don't think that is entirely it since there is also an element of intentional evasion which is something else.

There was also I think, an element of deliberate provocation, which is a trolling trait. To give specific examples: 1) persisting with "crazy glue" when it had been made clear that others found the term offensive, brand name or not. 2) Immediately attacking my comment on Covid lockdown in the UK as 'political', which it was not (as someone else pointed out). 3) Adoping an absurdly contrarian position to what I noted about a) tuning a piano down to 432 and b) Roberts Pianos video about replacing an old overdamper action with a new underdamper action.

After several such 'provocations', which were patently not just sincere discussion of alternative views. I stopped engaging with 411 at all.

Happy to close the subect and move on. Hopefully 411 might get some kind of help.

Last edited by David Boyce; 01/21/21 12:10 PM.
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Yes

Peter Grey Piano Doctor


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Obsession with coils


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Originally Posted by TimR
Ah. So there is sufficient force from the hammer to twist part of the pin inside the pinblock, overcoming the friction of the fibers. But when the hammer is released, exactly the same amount of energy stored in elastic deformation is available to untwist the pin, but it can't, because............. I dunno, I'm not a tuner, just a musician and mechanical engineer, but I'd want to see some evidence for that.
I'd like to see evidence for that as well. There is sufficient force to twist the pin a small amount before the pin begins to move, but once the static friction is overcome, the energy stored in the elastic deformation gets released when the whole pin moves. Besides, under normal operating conditions, the twist that happens in the block is only a fraction of one degree.

For the non-practicing technicians out there, the urban legend is that this tiny amount gets somehow stuck in the block, and tuners need to "set the pin" to compensate for it. The problem is, when raising the pitch on a grand piano using your right hand, the amount that the pin needs to be set is not a fraction of one degree, it is more like 5-20 degrees depending on the hammer setup. When you raise the pitch left-handed on a grand, you don't need to set the pin in the same way. There is a huge difference between left and right handed tuning when raising the pitch. A twist in the tuning pin doesn't explain that phenomenon.

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Noting the return of a certain contributor, I'm out of here folks. Thank you all for your many helpful comments over the years.

I get enough rudeness and confrontation while teaching in high schools, but at least I get paid for putting up with that.

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That's too bad David. Please check in once in a while.


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Hey David, don't go. Just put him on ignore.
I wonder how he got back on......
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Originally Posted by David Boyce
Noting the return of a certain contributor, I'm out of here folks. Thank you all for your many helpful comments over the years.

I get enough rudeness and confrontation while teaching in high schools, but at least I get paid for putting up with that.
David,
Are you aware that after selecting a user's profile at the bottom of that page you can select 'ignore user'? I too would not like to see you depart.
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Originally Posted by piano411
... the twist that happens in the block is only a fraction of one degree.

So finally you admit there is twist.

Originally Posted by piano411
For the non-practicing technicians out there, the urban legend is that this tiny amount gets somehow stuck in the block, and tuners need to "set the pin" to compensate for it. The problem is, when raising the pitch on a grand piano using your right hand, the amount that the pin needs to be set is not a fraction of one degree, it is more like 5-20 degrees depending on the hammer setup. When you raise the pitch left-handed on a grand, you don't need to set the pin in the same way. There is a huge difference between left and right handed tuning when raising the pitch. A twist in the tuning pin doesn't explain that phenomenon.

The above sounds like nonsense - can you post a video demonstrating this difference? So far, you've been all talk (and we easily proved your assertions were incorrect). Maybe it's time to (a) start signing your posts with your professional credentials and (b) put up some evidence or shut up.

Though, to be fair, at least your poorly set coils horse seems to have been laid to rest now.

Last edited by pyropaul; 01/26/21 03:28 PM. Reason: dead horse
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Originally Posted by Beemer
David, Are you aware that after selecting a user's profile at the bottom of that page you can select 'ignore user'?
He publicly let everyone know that he was already using the "ignore user" option. So, he should have been unable to take note when a certain contributor makes a post. When you use it, that is how that option works. It is a great feature and really easy to use.

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Originally Posted by pyropaul
So finally you admit there is twist.
The torsion of shafts is something that can be calculated. We can do that with a tuning pin. Sure. But, again, if you put the foot of a tuning pin in a vice, that thing isn't going anywhere, in any meaningful amount. That is something that we can feel. The calculations confirm that the pin isn't twisting in an amount that would account for "setting the pin," just like we feel.

Originally Posted by pyropaul
can you post a video demonstrating this difference? So far, you've been all talk (and we easily proved your assertions were incorrect).
The assertions are that the twist of the pin is meaningless. It doesn't happen in any significant amount, and what does happen, returns to its untwisted state once the force is removed. There is nothing a piano tuner needs to do to compensate for a non-existent twist of the tuning pin. Unless I have missed something, none of this has ever been proven incorrect.

Originally Posted by pyropaul
Though, to be fair, at least your poorly set coils horse seems to have been laid to rest now.
I have a lot more to say about becket bends. There really is so much more to get into. With the pin bending like it does during tuning, the turns seem have a significant influence on how the energy gets released.

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I had to hit the button four times before I saw this:
*** You are ignoring this user *** (not accordour)
Ian smile

Last edited by Beemer; 01/27/21 05:43 AM.

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I’m out of here too. This forum has been incredibly helpful over the past couple years for me.

Even though the ignore button is on, I still see all the replies where the troll is quoted.

I wish everybody well here.

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