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#3072800 01/22/21 06:13 PM
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So, I’m finally geting myself a high level MIDI-Piano and I wan’t to pair it with the best and most realistic VST possible. I play contemporary music, mostly some sort of Pop but I sometimes play other styles as well. I will also use the VST to record with so it would be great with an instrument that sits great in a mix.

I have som NI pianos like The Grandeur and The Gentlemen from Komplete. I wonder if there are some other options I should consider buying?

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vsl synchron piano's in my opinion. (The 3 concert grands, i find the bluthner and the upright to be less impressive)

Also good choices: garritan cfx, vi labs ravenscroft and modern u.

All highly playable piano's.

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+1 to U3piano's suggestions.


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I haven't found anything better than the Vintage D. I like the Steinway sound.
Others like the Garritan CFX. It's a Yamaha and it's pretty good, but it has pedaling problems.
I have the Galaxy Vienna Grand, which is a fine Bosendorfer if you like that sound.
The Kawai EX Pro is a good example of the Kawai sound.

There are dozens more that I've tried and rejected. And a few that I've tried that are just "okay".

So I stick with the few I named above.

You'll notice that all of those are older releases. I'm not fond of the newer packages. IMO they're getting worse, not better.

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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I haven't found anything better than the Vintage D. I like the Steinway sound.
Others like the Garritan CFX. It's a Yamaha and it's pretty good, but it has pedaling problems.
...

You'll notice that all of those are older releases. I'm not fond of the newer packages. IMO they're getting worse, not better.


I have and like the Garritan CFX and previously used the Ivory American Concert D. I'm looking into the VSL 274 Steinway but haven't heard too much about it. The demos sounds nice enough...

Is that one (VSL Steinway) in your list of things you've tried as a newer release Steinway? Do you still prefer the Vintage D to that?

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I would suggest to try Pianoteq 7 - there is a trial version available so you can check it out for free.

If you like sampled VST (as opposed to modeled VST), I would recommend VSL Concert D-274 and Garritan CFX. I would not recommend Embertone Walker D.

Osho


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I have Pianoteq 7 and prefer it to all other VSTs that I’ve owned. PT7 is much improved over prior versions, especially in the base notes. Best of all, there is NO latency with a decent modern computer.

Regards,

Dan.


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Originally Posted by U3piano
vsl synchron piano's in my opinion. (The 3 concert grands, i find the bluthner and the upright to be less impressive)

Also good choices: garritan cfx, vi labs ravenscroft and modern u.

All highly playable piano's.

100% , i can confirm

also Pianoteq since Version 7


RD 2000 VSL Synchron Bösendorfer; Pianoteq 7

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Originally Posted by U3piano
vsl synchron piano's in my opinion. (The 3 concert grands, i find the bluthner and the upright to be less impressive)

Also good choices: garritan cfx, vi labs ravenscroft and modern u.

All highly playable piano's.
+1 on all these. I share U3's sense of being a bit underwhelmed with the Bluthner, but I like the upright a lot. Of the VSL "big" grands, the CFX and Bosendorfer are my favourites.

If you like NI pianos, Noire could be a good choice.

I slightly prefer the VSL pianos over the Garritan CFX, but the Garritan's price:performance ratio is better, and you probably don't need such a powerful system to run it.

Pianoteq is a great program, but you have to try it first - it's really divisive. Fortunately the demo is free and almost fully functional.

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Originally Posted by CraiginNZ
Of the VSL "big" grands, the CFX and Bosendorfer are my favourites.

Have you tried the d-274 with quite a "hard" velocity curve? I had the same opinion before, I loved the cfx and bösendorfer but for some reason the d-274 not as much. But i found it just needed a hard velocity curve setting. It brings out all of the softer velocities and with that I totally rediscovered it and love it as much as the others! Actually it is the one I choose the most at the moment.

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Originally Posted by U3piano
Originally Posted by CraiginNZ
Of the VSL "big" grands, the CFX and Bosendorfer are my favourites.

Have you tried the d-274 with quite a "hard" velocity curve? I had the same opinion before, I loved the cfx and bösendorfer but for some reason the d-274 not as much. But i found it just needed a hard velocity curve setting. It brings out all of the softer velocities and with that I totally rediscovered it and love it as much as the others! Actually it is the one I choose the most at the moment.


Is a 'hard velocity curve' the same as reducing the midi sensitivity? I've found taking that down to -20 to -26 makes a big difference for me, for the same sorts of reasons you describe - it opens up the softer timbres. Until then, everything just sounded like I was bashing the keys full force. The sound was glorious, but wildly inappropriate for what I was trying to produce!

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I have not tried the VSL Steinway. And at nearly $300 it's not likely I will.

When the covid-induced piano shortage abates and I get my N1X ... I might be satisfied with its own sound and then shed the VSTs.
Or I might miss having a Steinway ... and I might choose a new one, such as the VSL.

Time will tell.
Originally Posted by Pathbreaker
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I haven't found anything better than the Vintage D. I like the Steinway sound.
Others like the Garritan CFX. It's a Yamaha and it's pretty good, but it has pedaling problems.
...
You'll notice that all of those are older releases. I'm not fond of the newer packages. IMO they're getting worse, not better.
I have and like the Garritan CFX and previously used the Ivory American Concert D. I'm looking into the VSL 274 Steinway but haven't heard too much about it.
Is that one (VSL Steinway) in your list of things you've tried as a newer release Steinway? Do you still prefer the Vintage D to that?

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Pop music, you say? Alicia's Keys!

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Of my VST's the most realistic are probably the Ivory II Studio Grands. But Garritan CFX is the most beautiful (but maybe not particularly suited to non-classical music, although playing almost exclusively classical, I could be wrong about that).


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Originally Posted by CraiginNZ
Is a 'hard velocity curve' the same as reducing the midi sensitivity? I've found taking that down to -20 to -26 makes a big difference for me, for the same sorts of reasons you describe - it opens up the softer timbres. Until then, everything just sounded like I was bashing the keys full force. The sound was glorious, but wildly inappropriate for what I was trying to produce!

I don't know exactly how the midi sensitivity settings works, so I could be wrong, but I feel a hard velocity curve works much better, because it opens up the softer and warmer timbres as well, but without taking away the powerful higher velocity's.

I have experimented with the midi sensitivity a bit (but not much), but I didn't really like it. While it does open up the softer timbres, it also seems to take away the power of the higher velocity's, and therefore pretty drastically reduces the dynamic range.

Without applying one of those 2 options I felt the same, like bashing the keys really hard.

-edit-

I just compared using a hard velocity curve to -20 midi sensitivity, and indeed the first option is much more satisfying to me, because of a much bigger dynamic range.

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This totally resonates with me U3Piano. Although these things are very dependent on keyboards but cfx and Bose seem to work out of the box, while the Steinway doesn’t. I’m using a harder curve in my daw instead of keyboard since it gives me the most flexibility. After using the curve for the Steinway, it is my favorite VST. VSL Steinway has a pretty wide range of timbres and I like Tube and Mid microphones.


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VST(preference in order): VSL Synchron Pianos, Vienna Imperial, Garritan CFX, VI Labs Modern U, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq
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Thank you for all the help! Here’s my take so far:

I used to own Alicia’s Keys. I’ve read it’s not that Pop oriented. Also, I did find som dissonance/noise when pushing multiple keys. It was always the same with the same keys pressed. Don’t know why. When I played the same keys one by one I couldn’t hear any dissonance. None of my other NI pianos have had this problem.

I have the Pianoteq 7 demo and while it is more playable but I find the sound not that realistic. Maybe the Noire (since I’m going to update from Komplete Standard to Ultimate during the sale this summer) or Steinway or CFX Standard libraries from VSL is they way to go smile After some googeling, VSL also have big sales at 30% off.

Last edited by Rickdiculous; 01/23/21 07:43 AM.
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I have Alicia's Keys. Is it pop-oriented? I don't think it matters. I found it truly terrible. Worse than any other paid VST I've tried.
Originally Posted by Rickdiculous
I used to own Alicia’s Keys. I’ve read it’s not that Pop oriented ...

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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I have Alicia's Keys. Is it pop-oriented? I don't think it matters. I found it truly terrible. Worse than any other paid VST I've tried.
Originally Posted by Rickdiculous
I used to own Alicia’s Keys. I’ve read it’s not that Pop oriented ...

Exactly! The sound is alright but nothing more. However, the dissonance I was experencing is not OK.

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My two favorite are the VSL Bösendorfer Imperial Grand and VI Labs Modern U.

I wish I could give you technical details on why they sound realistic, but I have not researched enough to know why, I only know that for me, they are the most realistic.

I play the Bösendorfer daily and the Modern U for specific songs when I'm looking for a tighter, more direct sound that doesn't require the power of a 9 1/2 foot grand.

God Bless,
David


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