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Save your breath, Paul.


Jeff Deutschle
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I've been thinking about it again last night.
We are all concentrating on the pin twisting, but supposing the surrounding wood twists. After all the grain is perpendicular to the hole so it's possible, isn't it, that the grain twists. Assuming that the twisting in the head of the pin is only within the elastic range of the steel, one would probably expect that to return without aid, but is it possible that twisted wood fibres would slowly return and that that is what we are adjusting when we try to set the pin (notwithstanding the equalisation of the seperate parts of the wire)?

I'm looking forward to these videos.

Nick


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Originally Posted by N W
I've been thinking about it again last night.
We are all concentrating on the pin twisting, but supposing the surrounding wood twists. After all the grain is perpendicular to the hole so it's possible, isn't it, that the grain twists. Assuming that the twisting in the head of the pin is only within the elastic range of the steel, one would probably expect that to return without aid, but is it possible that twisted wood fibres would slowly return and that that is what we are adjusting when we try to set the pin (notwithstanding the equalisation of the seperate parts of the wire)?

I'm looking forward to these videos.

Nick

I'll be able to make the video tonight if my cameraman doesn't have too much homework before his basketball game. laugh

What I saw was a residual twist in the pin as indicated by an angular difference between the head and the foot. A graduated card is attached to a rod on the foot and a pointer rod to the head. Now the wood fibers in the pinblock would certainly be part of the friction, but the pin itself seems to hold a twist.


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Aren't most pinblocks laminated anyway? So they have grain in several different directions?

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Yes, but the end grain is always perpendicular to the axis of the pin. Or maybe you are asking about something else?


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In a grand, the pins are vertical. The traditional 5 ply pinblock is made with quarter sawn maple. So the grain is also vertical. Would that not mean that the grain is parallel to the pins?

Maybe I am confused. English is my second language.


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Originally Posted by David Boyce
You had a good Dad, Jeff.

Sad to think of the number of children whose parents never read them anything as they grew up.
I'm grateful 65 years ago to having access to a full 10 volume set of 'The Children's Encyclopedia'. I read it all and remember being scared when I turned a page to find multi-layer turnover images of the human body and on another occasion seeing the underside of a Horseshoe crab. These crabs still give me the creeps today! I wonder what today's children would think of Aesop's Fables?
Ian


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Originally Posted by accordeur
In a grand, the pins are vertical. The traditional 5 ply pinblock is made with quarter sawn maple. So the grain is also vertical. Would that not mean that the grain is parallel to the pins?

Maybe I am confused. English is my second language.

I don't think I've ever seen pins into endgrain.
But if they were, I think that would twist much more.

I could of course be wrong.....it has been known smile
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Well, it would appear that 411 got himself/herself banned again. This according to the profile. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor


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Originally Posted by P W Grey
Well, it would appear that 411 got himself/herself banned again. This according to the profile. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor

"This member account has been banned."

Good - anyone is free to post their opinions but professionals are supposed to indicate that in their profile info. Frustrating to see someone self-destruct in a whirlwind of delusions that are easily disproved.

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Definitely a strange one. Some mental issues.

Trolling is trolling, however experienced one may be in a trade or profession.

This Forum is great - from time to time there are disagreements about technical matters, and robust arguments and counter-arguments in discussion. But these discussions are within bounds, and by persons whose identities are known.

To lurk behind anonymity, saying your qualifications are in the public domain, but then not giving your name, and saying we should hire a private detective to track down his qualifications was weird. And the whole attitude was rude, condescending and ungracious at all time. True trolling.

I asked the moderator how to unsubscribe (without saying why), because I was feeling that at some point I might have to do so, for my peace of mind. It seems one can't unsubscribe as such, just log out and stop posting.

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Started a new Topic with the video. Now to watch the cameraman's basketball game via live streaming!

http://forum.pianoworld.com//ubbthreads.php/topics/3071588.html#Post3071588


Jeff Deutschle
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Hope they won.

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Originally Posted by David Boyce
Hope they won.
Thanks, Varsity hasn't started yet.


Jeff Deutschle
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Hope they win, then!

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Yep we won 52 - 46. Very small Christian schools. Just 8 guys on our team. Everybody gets to play and is important!


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I really enjoyed the UPS truck and the Dog biting the tires story!!!

-chris


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Originally Posted by piano411
Originally Posted by TimR
Trying to understand: by twist do you mean rotation within the pinblock, or a rotational distortion of the piin itself?
Here is a cartoon depicting exactly what the urban legend is all about:
http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/galleries/3070012/tuning-pin.html

Any rotation that may be happening above the pinblock is meaningless, because as soon as you remove the pressure on the hammer, it naturally goes away. There is nothing that we would need to do about it. The urban legend is that the twist of the pin happens below the surface and it gets temporarily trapped there. .

Ah. So there is sufficient force from the hammer to twist part of the pin inside the pinblock, overcoming the friction of the fibers. But when the hammer is released, exactly the same amount of energy stored in elastic deformation is available to untwist the pin, but it can't, because............. I dunno, I'm not a tuner, just a musician and mechanical engineer, but I'd want to see some evidence for that.


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I'm pretty well convinced that it's not that big of a deal UNLESS there is enlargement at the top of the hole and quite tight at the bottom. My experience tells me that if the wire renders well at the counterbearing points, I will feel/sense/and adjust for any residual twist in the pin (if any). For me, rendering is the paramount issue.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor


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Originally Posted by TimR
Originally Posted by piano411
Originally Posted by TimR
Trying to understand: by twist do you mean rotation within the pinblock, or a rotational distortion of the piin itself?
Here is a cartoon depicting exactly what the urban legend is all about:
http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/galleries/3070012/tuning-pin.html

Any rotation that may be happening above the pinblock is meaningless, because as soon as you remove the pressure on the hammer, it naturally goes away. There is nothing that we would need to do about it. The urban legend is that the twist of the pin happens below the surface and it gets temporarily trapped there. .

Ah. So there is sufficient force from the hammer to twist part of the pin inside the pinblock, overcoming the friction of the fibers. But when the hammer is released, exactly the same amount of energy stored in elastic deformation is available to untwist the pin, but it can't, because............. I dunno, I'm not a tuner, just a musician and mechanical engineer, but I'd want to see some evidence for that.

"but it can't, because............." Because the friction keep the twist in the pin, like if you twisted a sponge and that you held in your hand. It will stay twisted until you twist it the other way.

"but I'd want to see some evidence for that" It's not a whole lot of twist, but you can see a video here:

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...ng-pin-twist-demo-video.html#Post3071588


Jeff Deutschle
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