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#3070277 01/17/21 10:24 AM
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Moggul Offline OP
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Hello all.

This is my first post so it may end up being somewhat long.

30 years ago I decided to learn to play the piano and bought a 2nd hand Korg Concert 3500 following the advice of my piano teacher. I used it for a year and then it sat unused as I lost interest. Fast forward 30 years to the COVID/confinement era, I decide to take up piano again, rescue the Korg from my parents' basement and start again with the help of piano learning apps. This time it works and in a few months I am havind a lot of fun.

I enjoy learning at my own pace and playing the music I like, mainly songs from the 80's, power ballads, etc. My two hand coordination is awful so I use the left hand mainly to play chords as an accompaniment to the melody played tith the right hand. I have found to enjoy this a lot and do not have much interest in playing Für Elise and her friends.

So I am thinking about buying a new Digital Piano to improve the experience. I expect to enjoy a lot the possibility to play with rithms, voices, accompaniments, etc. Right now my line of thinking is that I would like to get an arranger keyboard but with the action of a good piano. I already have a Yamaha MX49 but the action is nothing like my current Korg Concert. This piano was top of the line in the 80's and although the sound is not that great and poliphony is limited to 16 notes, the feel, touch, response and general quality of the keys is very good, so I do not want to lose that. Also my space is limited so I am gravitating more towards a slab piano than a console one.

I tried to buy a Casio PX360 as I love the touch screen but it is out of stock in my area. Also the PX560 isn't available so I am thinking about the Casio PX-S3000. I have also considered the Yamaha P125 but it lacks a lot of the arranger features. Other possibilities would be the Yamaha DGX660 or the Korg XE20. I have read about the "flawed" action in the Casio but I have read mostly good reviews from general users so I believe it would be a good fit for me.

I'd love to get a Yamaha Clavinova CVP-701 but it is out of my budget and impossible to fit in my house at the moment (maybe in the future...)

So... Am I missing any good option? Do you think the PX-S3000 will be a good option for me?

Thanks for reading!!!

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Originally Posted by Moggul
... Do you think the PX-S3000 will be a good option for me?...

What I can tell you is this ....

I have owned the Kawai ES7, ES8, and MP11SE and found all of them to be excellent in every way.

I recently ordered and returned the Kawai ES920 because I could not get the sound to my liking.

I have since moved back to the Casio PX-S1000 which I had around for backup.

I am finding that I enjoy playing it very much.

The sound and action are very much to my liking with the one exception about the short key length causing it to be a bit harder to press down the keys near the back of the key.

Trust me .... this is not a big deal or I would not be ok with it.

I am ... at least until something with fantastic reviews appears and I have a chance to play it for my self.

I absolutely think the PX-S3000 would be a nice piano for you and at a very nice price point, I might add.


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Avoid the entry casios due to short pivot.

You'll want to hold off on new purchases until you've proven genuine lasting interest in furthering piano. (proven to yourself)

Else, it'll just turn into the exercise equipment that people buy and as you've personally experienced, left in the basement for 30 years.

For beginner play, there's nothing you can't do on what you have, even if it's only got 16 polyphony. Most songs in the beginner repertoire will sound just fine.

The hardwork is not in the instrument. The hardwork is the sheetmusic reading and repetition.

Last edited by jeffcat; 01/17/21 11:01 AM.
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Originally Posted by dmd
. . .
I absolutely think the PX-S3000 would be a nice piano for you and at a very nice price point, I might add.

+1.

I think that the PX-S3000 has all the "arranger features" of earlier models (PX-350 / PX-360 etc). For the way you're playing, those features (auto-chording, etc) are important.

The sound generator has a pretty good implementation of "string resonance" -- I didn't expect that, on an "entry-level" DP.

A salesman I know, who doesn't like Casios, accepts that the new Casios are "on par" with equivalent Yamaha DP's. I've tried the Yamaha GHS action (standard on their entry-level DP's), and I prefer the Casio action, in spite of its "short pivot" design. That's a very subjective opinion.

I tried one out, and the keys _are_ heavy, near the fallboard. If I kept my fingers arched (as opposed to flat), that wasn't a problem, even for scales in Db / B / Gb with lots of black keys.


Ideally, you'd be able to try one out, and decide for yourself whether you find it OK, or not.

. . . could you buy one, with a good exchange / refund policy ?


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Since you like the action of your current Korg, you might consider keeping it as your primary keybed, and using its MIDI out capability to connect to computerized virtual instruments, digital to analog conversion, amplification, and all the other manipulations you might need. Much, or most, of the sound modifications that formerly (30 years ago) required expensive hardware and equipment now only requires a computer and software, some of which you might find for free or for very little expense.

I would seek the advice of forum members here, or in the "Pianists Corner, non Classical" forum to see how much of the sound manipulation you seek is available via software, and available at very low cost.

For the cost of a new Casio, I'd think you could amass quite an effective (for you) studio.

Last edited by Ralphiano; 01/17/21 01:29 PM.

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Based on what you said:
- Like voices/arranger/rhythm functions
- No interest in classical music
- Not so much advanced reportoire

Keep the Korg for now, save up. Don't order the Casio blind. You'll should really want to test a couple of other arranger piano's as well, the upgrade with a random online order might not be big enough from the Korg.

If I were you I'd look into the Yamaha CVP line and similar products from Nord, Roland, Korg, etc. There's really a ton of them with proper 88 keys, weighted, etc. The richter featureset will likely be worth more to you compared to having the absolute best key action that most this subforum members are after (to play the advanced classical stuff).

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Originally Posted by Ralphiano
Since you like the action of your current Korg, you might consider keeping it as your primary keybed, and using its MIDI out capability to connect to computerized virtual instruments, digital to analog conversion, amplification, and all the other manipulations you might need. Much, or most, of the sound modifications that formerly (30 years ago) required expensive hardware and equipment now only requires a computer and software, some of which you might find for free or for very little expense.

I would seek the advice of forum members here, or in the "Pianists Corner, non Classical" forum to see how much of the sound manipulation you seek is available via software, and available at very low cost.

For the cost of a new Casio, I'd think you could amass quite an effective (for you) studio.

BTW, I'm a Casio fan. I've owned two, and both were positive experiences for me.


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Moggul Offline OP
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And Yamaha just comes up with the DGX-670 with a colour screen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2tj9smmWc0&feature=youtu.be

Time to reevaluate the options smile

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Originally Posted by Moggul
And Yamaha just comes up with the DGX-670 with a colour screen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2tj9smmWc0&feature=youtu.be

Time to reevaluate the options smile
Jeez that thing looks absolutely massive compared to my 25 lb Casio


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Originally Posted by Moggul
And Yamaha just comes up with the DGX-670 with a colour screen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2tj9smmWc0&feature=youtu.be

Time to reevaluate the options smile


I had a DGX660 and it was nice so the 670 would be something to consider in your case. But you need to play it. So I think the idea to keep your current one and use MIDI to control VSTs meanwhile is a good one


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Originally Posted by EB5AGV
Originally Posted by Moggul
And Yamaha just comes up with the DGX-670 with a colour screen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2tj9smmWc0&feature=youtu.be

Time to reevaluate the options smile


I had a DGX660 and it was nice so the 670 would be something to consider in your case. But you need to play it. So I think the idea to keep your current one and use MIDI to control VSTs meanwhile is a good one

Might be worth considering that the 670 does not include the stand any more. Another $100 (more, I think) to get that.


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Originally Posted by EB5AGV
I think the idea to keep your current one and use MIDI to control VSTs meanwhile is a good one
What VSTs provide arranger features? And wouldn't they be somewhat hobbled by not providing near-the-keys controls for things like intros, fills, b-sections, endings?

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Originally Posted by anotherscott
Originally Posted by EB5AGV
I think the idea to keep your current one and use MIDI to control VSTs meanwhile is a good one
What VSTs provide arranger features? And wouldn't they be somewhat hobbled by not providing near-the-keys controls for things like intros, fills, b-sections, endings?

I was thinking along these lines. Part of the fun (at least for me) is to be able to change the style on the go and that is why I initially tried to order the PX360. I was more or les set on the PX-S3000 although I would have had to use my tablet as control screen. Now the DGX670 provides a nice control screen, although it is very bulky compared with the PX-S.

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With respect to the PX-S3000 there is a specific argument against it -- I would recommend trying it out in person first -- as the downweights of black keys seem to surprisingly differ from the downweights of white keys.
See this youtube video by James Pavel Shawcross for example...


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Originally Posted by Jasper E.
With respect to the PX-S3000 there is a specific argument against it -- I would recommend trying it out in person first -- as the downweights of black keys seem to surprisingly differ from the downweights of white keys.
See this youtube video by James Pavel Shawcross for example...

It's a short pivot emergency!! Aghhhhhhhhhh

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Originally Posted by Jasper E.
With respect to the PX-S3000 there is a specific argument against it -- I would recommend trying it out in person first -- as the downweights of black keys seem to surprisingly differ from the downweights of white keys.
See this youtube video by James Pavel Shawcross for example...

Objection about the PX-S3000's pivot length being too short is a legitimate concert, IMHO. I would no recommend that model to anyone.

Osho


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Originally Posted by OU812
Originally Posted by Jasper E.
With respect to the PX-S3000 there is a specific argument against it -- I would recommend trying it out in person first -- as the downweights of black keys seem to surprisingly differ from the downweights of white keys.
See this youtube video by James Pavel Shawcross for example...

It's a short pivot emergency!! Aghhhhhhhhhh

A short pivot emergency with a little extra...
An attempt to compensate it which might help for some usages, which significantly worsens in some (not so rare) other usages.
And then I have to mention the follow-up video: Let's Take Apart the Casio PX-S3000
Especially these sections are relevant: 7:30-12:25, 13:21-15:39, and a comment about market demand: 16:48-17:04


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Originally Posted by Moggul
So I am thinking about buying a new Digital Piano to improve the experience. I expect to enjoy a lot the possibility to play with rithms, voices, accompaniments, etc. Right now my line of thinking is that I would like to get an arranger keyboard but with the action of a good piano.

It sounds as if you want a Yamaha CVP piano. They're basically a Yahama arranger keyboard (PSR, Tyros, Genos, depending on how new and/or high-up in the line the CVP is) built into a piano cabinet with one of Yamaha's piano actions.


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Originally Posted by Falsch
Originally Posted by Moggul
So I am thinking about buying a new Digital Piano to improve the experience. I expect to enjoy a lot the possibility to play with rithms, voices, accompaniments, etc. Right now my line of thinking is that I would like to get an arranger keyboard but with the action of a good piano.

It sounds as if you want a Yamaha CVP piano. They're basically a Yahama arranger keyboard (PSR, Tyros, Genos, depending on how new and/or high-up in the line the CVP is) built into a piano cabinet with one of Yamaha's piano actions.

Yes. Is is exactly as you say although CVPs are bulky and expensive. I think the recently launched DGX670 may be a decent compromise.


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