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I visited music shop again to inspect Kawai GX2 before decide to buy. In overall OK except small problem.

There were some dead spot in very high treble section there were almost no sustaining sound but it was ok when they were played with sustain pedal, it was same on GX6.

I found the one of bass single string makes wavy sound. But all grand pianos and uprights (GL10,20,30, GX6, K300,500,600,800) had 1 ~ 4 wavy sounding bass. Is it quite common in acoustic pianos? Can it be easily fixed?



It's on F#

Last edited by tony3304; 01/17/21 01:20 AM.
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short sustain on high treble means -> some of notes in very high treble have very short decay

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Guessing what you're hearing is because of the tuning. Each note has multiple strings, so if they're not tuned at exactly the same pitch you get "beats", or the wavy sound. You can request that the piano to be freshly tuned before you play it again.

And quick decay way up in the treble is normal!

Last edited by twocats; 01/17/21 01:49 AM.

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It's single bass string

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Then it could just be how the piano sounds. My piano gets very rumbly down there as well. Ask the shop if they can do something about it!

But if you like the rest of the piano, I wouldn't worry about the super low bass notes. I don't think you'll be playing at the bottom of the piano all that much wink


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Do you think it is OK to ask them to fix after buying? Currently I am negotiating the price , so I am hesitating to ask them if they can fix this note at their cost.

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They might not be able to fix the F#.

You might need to accept these consumer grade pianos as they are for some situations. It might not be possible to make any improvements.

The treble decay might not be solved as well.

Also it might sound different in your room compared to the showroom.

Do not expect much to change from what you are currently hearing.

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What is consumer grade piano exactly? Replacing the string doesn't help at all?

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Ah . . . I understand the word now after reading PianoBuyer. I thought Kawai GX2 is just below the top class piano like Steinway, Bosendorfer or Shigeru Kawai

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Yes it is from this article that I had posted earlier in your Schimmel topic

https://www.pianobuyer.com/article/a-map-of-the-market-for-new-pianos-ratings/

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Originally Posted by tony3304
Do you think it is OK to ask them to fix after buying? Currently I am negotiating the price , so I am hesitating to ask them if they can fix this note at their cost.
Asking to make minor changes and on one note is perfectly reasonable and will not affect price. I didn't hear any difference between the F# and the other bass notes you played but maybe that's just me. You don't say which notes in the upper treble were problematic, but the top 4 or 5 typically have little or no sustain which is why they don't need dampers. If the two notes surrounding a note both have much better sustain than a given note, that's what I would call a dead note and you can ask them to try to address that. Even though the piano may sound different in your home, that's no reason why you shouldn't try to have the piano sound to your satisfaction in the showroom before buying it.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 01/17/21 07:53 AM.
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The dead area is in around last octave. The piano tuner slightly detuned the dead section on my previous Yamaha G2 to get some slow decay.
I tried GX6 and several other grands and they were all same. So I didn't concern anout the treble section much.
I live in very small town where not many rich people live and most of rich people who are interested in grand pianos consider them as luxurious furniture. My friend recommended me to wait more and don't be rushed to buy as he thinks price will go down further.

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I am wondering how many people think F# sounds wavy from this video clip?

Last edited by tony3304; 01/17/21 08:22 AM.
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Originally Posted by tony3304
The dead area is in around last octave. The piano tuner slightly detuned the dead section on my previous Yamaha G2 to get some slow decay.
I tried GX6 and several other grands and they were all same. So I didn't concern anout the treble section much.
I live in very small town where not many rich people live and most of rich people who are interested in grand pianos consider them as luxurious furniture. My friend recommended me to wait more and don't be rushed to buy as he thinks price will go down further.
There should be some difference between the top three or so notes and the rest of the notes in the top octave below them. Ideally the rest of those notes should have a little better sustain or at least sound more musical. I never heard of detuning notes to get better sustain.You may be talking about what's called stretching the tuning which is done for a different reason and, as far as I know, a standard tuning procedure. Piano prices rarely go down unless the dealer is desperate for a sale.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 01/17/21 08:35 AM.
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Tony,
I think you have missed a significant characteristic. Copper wound bass strings have significant mass and after a string is damped parts of the string continue to vibrate. This vibration is picked up by neighboring strings and contribute to the effect you are hearing. Here is a website that discusses a similar effect as it applies to pendulums.

https://physicsworld.com/a/the-secret-of-the-synchronized-pendulums/

With regard to your mention of the high treble sustain. The strike point of the high treble strings is very critical. Even a millimeter out of the designed strike line can affect the sustain. This could be in the case of only one note that the hammer head has not been positioned correctly, or its shaft is slightly bent or its felt has been incorrectly reshaped. Another possible reason is that the three strings are not level, or the hammer alignment is such that the felt is not at right angles to the strings.
Ian


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I think you may be worrying too much about small issues in your piano search which may lead to analysis paralysis. If you are intent on buying one just choose one that meets most of your desires and be happy with it. I find that in all the pianos I have played there will be days I like how it behaves and on other days not so much. This is not a digital piano which pretty much sound and play bad every day and every moment but an instrument made of organic materials that interact with the environment it is placed in and how we treat it. If you want consistency buy a digital.


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Bach/Busoni Chaconne in D minor BWV 1004
Preludio: Bach/Rachmaninoff E Major Sonata for Violin
Chopin: G Minor Ballade


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Thanks Jethro, I tried to think it's a small problem that other people never notice but it's hard to control my sensitivity. As it is brand new expensive piano , I expect it as perfect condition.

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As far as I'm concerned, if you really care that much of sound, and have a strong will to play better, an upright made to higher standard, for instance a C120 Schimmel (not only) will be of greater help. It may not sound as big as grand, but much more flexible and precise, it can tell you everything you haven't worked well with. I had seen a piano teacher on Youtube who makes demos of Chopin etudes at home, his piano a Schimmel, the model might be a study piano 108. In each video he plays twice, first time with pedal and second time without pedal. Great techniques and glorious sounds to me! No doubt he's capable to give concerts on better pianos.

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Originally Posted by Jethro
I think you may be worrying too much about small issues in your piano search which may lead to analysis paralysis. If you are intent on buying one just choose one that meets most of your desires and be happy with it. I find that in all the pianos I have played there will be days I like how it behaves and on other days not so much. This is not a digital piano which pretty much sound and play bad every day and every moment but an instrument made of organic materials that interact with the environment it is placed in and how we treat it. If you want consistency buy a digital.

Your advice is a good one. Acoustic pianos are wonderfully inconsistent—- but the inconsistency does not fit everyone.


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
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