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#3069741 01/16/21 09:36 AM
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Chummy Offline OP
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hi everyone! not sure how to delegate it to Kawai, but I do recall user Kawaijames is affiliated with them, hopefully he or somebody else can address this and delegate it to them.

The bug happens in dual mode, as while the sustain pedal is pressed and the sound is switched (by pressing a different sound buttom) - doing this causes the sustain to remain indefinitely. It's probably due to the MIDI command not registering the sustain pedal as "off" or "zero" , similar thing may occur in a DAW when a part is stopped recording while the sustain pedal is pressed thus not recording the "off" message which means the continuation recorded on the same track will start as if the pedal is still held.

Anyway this is extremely annoying when you dual something with an organ sound as the organ will have a neverending sustain and you wouldn't be able to turn in off unless you go back specifically to the same dual performance and press the pedal again to stop it (or power off the machine).
Hopefully Kawai can address this in a hotfix !
Not sure if other updates are planned, as Kawai to my knowledge don't update their stuff like Yamaha with new features to keep value and interest in the long term. I wish that would be something they'd do though.


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Definitely let Kawai James know, and include detailed description and step by step repro steps if you can.

If it is a bug, Kawai is usually very good at addressing in a timely manner and issuing a new firmware.


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Hi does not happen on mine.

Can you give me the ect sounds etc.

What is your damper hold setting?


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Have you calibrated the sustain pedal and upgraded any firmware?


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As with most bug reports, you'll get a better response if you detail every step, every button press, every knob turn, absolutely everything you do no matter how trivial, that gets you to the point the issue appears.

So,

Step 1: Push power on button
Step 2: ???

Fill in as many steps as you need from that point.


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Frank is right, you need to give all the details because if they can't see the issue they won't fix it. And also pianoworld is not the best place to report a problem with your Kawai, maybe kawaius.com is more appropriate.



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Originally Posted by Serge88
Frank is right, you need to give all the details because if they can't see the issue they won't fix it. And also pianoworld is not the best place to report a problem with your Kawai, maybe kawaius.com is more appropriate.

Especially, if you are wrong and there is no bug and you find yourself needing to go through the process of apologizing and/or asking the Pianoworld executives to remove the thread .... because you wouldn't want to spread a false and misleading rumor about an innocent corporation.


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Chummy Offline OP
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I have not updated any software firmware but I did check, the only update there is adds support to the app and nothing more. Thus , I do not assume updating to said firmware solves this issue. About my sustain pedal, I'm using the Kawai made sustain pedal that came with the ES920 and did not mess with any of the settings.

Thank you Serge88 for the useful advice, I will head over to KawaiUS.com as well, they'd want to know about this. Not sure how to tag users (like Kawai James) so they can see this thread. Does such function exist in Pianoworld?

I made a video demonstrating the problem for some of you who could not understand my detailed description. Anyway, it illustrates it better.


Edit: I've contacted Kawaius and attached this video as well.

Last edited by Chummy; 01/17/21 02:15 AM.

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As a workaround until a solution is provided, is it possible to disable the pedal for organ sounds?

FWIW ES8 does not have this issue, at least not doing what you did on the video. So it is likely Kawai will fix it soon.


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Hi I have tried again doing what you do- mine does not do what your does. When i take my foot off the pedal the sound stops. So it must be a fault on yours . My version is 1.10.

Have you tried with a different pedal? have you done a factory reset? Also have you tired playing with damper hold setting?

If not it is not a bug that affects all 920.

Can anyone else try it on thiers?


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Originally Posted by Chummy
I have not updated any software firmware but I did check, the only update there is adds support to the app and nothing more. Thus , I do not assume updating to said firmware solves this issue. About my sustain pedal, I'm using the Kawai made sustain pedal that came with the ES920 and did not mess with any of the settings.

Thank you Serge88 for the useful advice, I will head over to KawaiUS.com as well, they'd want to know about this. Not sure how to tag users (like Kawai James) so they can see this thread. Does such function exist in Pianoworld?

I made a video demonstrating the problem for some of you who could not understand my detailed description. Anyway, it illustrates it better.


Edit: I've contacted Kawaius and attached this video as well.

I'm not familiary with the ES920; however, I know that on my MP7
Originally Posted by musicman100
Hi I have tried again doing what you do- mine does not do what your does. When i take my foot off the pedal the sound stops. So it must be a fault on yours . My version is 1.10.

Have you tried with a different pedal? have you done a factory reset? Also have you tired playing with damper hold setting?

If not it is not a bug that affects all 920.

Can anyone else try it on thiers?

Factory reset is the first thing to try, along with making sure any pedal plugs are pushed in the right holes and secured properly.


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Thanks Doug will try a factory reset and report back. I wonder, since you say it happens on MP7 too, why haven't Kawai addressed this issue ? maybe nobody reported it? Even if system reset would solve this I'd imagine a page on Kawai's website directing whoever has this problem to just format the system once.... Interesting...

@Musicman This is not a hardware faulty of my unit or pedal, it's a software problem (MIDI pedal off most likely). I'm an audio guy so I immediately knew what causes this.

Thus, you probably you didn't manage to reconstruct the bug properly. You do have to hold the sustain pedal all the way through even while pressing the other sound button (switching) and then some more (1 sec? 2 sec more? try). This is AFAIK happens only in dual mode and not in single performance mode (not sure about split mode as I don't use it like almost at all). While this bug is not a huge issue I happened to discover it by chance when I kept the pedal on, changed sound and continuted playing. This bug can occur absentmindedly during a play/performance if you're not keen on knowing it CAN happen.

@EVC good question and a legit workaround idea. Not sure how to disable sustain pedal only on organs, I'll delve into the settings to see whether this is possible. In any case, I do hope Kawai fixes it regardless since the same thing happens in strings/pads etc. anything with sustain not at 0.

If and when I get a response from Kawaius I'll update for the benefit of everyone here. I didn't receive an email confirmation that they receieved my message but we'll see I guess if they got it.


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Originally Posted by Chummy
... since you say it happens on MP7 too

Whoa .... I think if you re-read his post, you will find that he did not say it happens on the MP7.

He said that "on the MP7, the first thing to try is a factory reset".

I take that too mean that in case anything does not work right, the first thing to try is a factory reset.

I might be wrong.

Maybe Doug could clarify for us.

Doug ... Did you say it happens on the mp7 ?


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Originally Posted by dmd
Originally Posted by Chummy
... since you say it happens on MP7 too

Whoa .... I think if you re-read his post, you will find that he did not say it happens on the MP7.

He said that "on the MP7, the first thing to try is a factory reset".

I take that too mean that in case anything does not work right, the first thing to try is a factory reset.

I might be wrong.

Maybe Doug could clarify for us.

Doug ... Did you say it happens on the mp7 ?

No, I didn't mean that, just like you said: I always proceed with a factory reset and a quick check for firmware updates.
My old MP7 had calibration ability for both damper and swell pedal; however, I read the manual and it seems not to be a feature of the ES920.

I did see in the ES920 manual that there are two kinds of organ sustain:
ON: where the organ, string etc. sounds will be sustained continuously while the sustain pedal is pressed
Off: Organ, string etc., sounds will gradually decay, even while the sustain pedal is pressed.
It's in page 79 of 148: section called Damper Hold.

Maybe try varying that setting?!

Also, I presume that the damper pedal doesn't have a polarity switch?

Last edited by Doug M.; 01/17/21 12:33 PM.

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Originally Posted by Chummy
Thanks Doug will try a factory reset and report back. I wonder, since you say it happens on MP7 too, why haven't Kawai addressed this issue ? maybe nobody reported it? Even if system reset would solve this I'd imagine a page on Kawai's website directing whoever has this problem to just format the system once.... Interesting...

@Musicman This is not a hardware faulty of my unit or pedal, it's a software problem (MIDI pedal off most likely). I'm an audio guy so I immediately knew what causes this.

Thus, you probably you didn't manage to reconstruct the bug properly. You do have to hold the sustain pedal all the way through even while pressing the other sound button (switching) and then some more (1 sec? 2 sec more? try). This is AFAIK happens only in dual mode and not in single performance mode (not sure about split mode as I don't use it like almost at all). While this bug is not a huge issue I happened to discover it by chance when I kept the pedal on, changed sound and continuted playing. This bug can occur absentmindedly during a play/performance if you're not keen on knowing it CAN happen.

@EVC good question and a legit workaround idea. Not sure how to disable sustain pedal only on organs, I'll delve into the settings to see whether this is possible. In any case, I do hope Kawai fixes it regardless since the same thing happens in strings/pads etc. anything with sustain not at 0.

If and when I get a response from Kawaius I'll update for the benefit of everyone here. I didn't receive an email confirmation that they receieved my message but we'll see I guess if they got it.

Yes I did follow your steps exactly and it does not happen on my es920! I dont know how clear I have to be!! It is not a hardware fault. Here is a video to prove it. You clearly have a fault but it is not hardware.



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Hello Chummy,

If you experience any issues with your ES920, it's probably best to report them to your dealer and/or the distributor in your country, who should be able to support you directly.

If it is a software related issue, feel free to send me a private message that includes detailed steps on how to reproduce the problem.

Regarding this particular topic, my colleague has so far been unable to reproduce the issue that you described and demonstrated in your video.

Kind regards,
James
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thanks Kawai James, I sent a message to Kawai and they emailed me back:

Quote
"Hello,



I watched your video and if you are still holding the sustain pedal when changing sounds the Organ/EP dual sound never sees the pedal released so it never receives the CC64 sustain off message to stop the notes until you re-select that dual sound and press the pedal.



For some keyboards this is normal and expected behavior, for others a note off message is always sent whenever the sound is changed regardless of how you are using the pedal but I’m not sure about the ES920 since it is a new model so tomorrow when I am back in the office I will check it find out what the correct pedal behavior should be and let you know."

so basically, I was right all along (no surprise here). Whether this plagues only several ES920 or all of them is a different question, which I'm expected to get an answer soon. I wonder whether this is an expected behaviour, as like the Kawai representetive describes.

BTW I did a system reset and it didn't cure the problem. I might consider the software update which doesn't say it fixes any issue (because who knows? and why not) but I'll wait to see what the Kawai representative tells me.

@dmd I re-read his post and and after quoting my video and bug description he said "I'm not familiary with the ES920; however, I know that on my MP7" so it's more logical for this sentence to address to the quote above it, while the other sentence would apply to the second quote that's above it as well , it's ambigious.

@Doug yeah there's no calibration option. Thanks for checking in the manual, I'll try the sustain option in the menu. Yeah Pedal doesn't have polarity switch which although that wouldn't change much even if it did.


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[/quote]

Do YOURSELF a favor and calm down. I never said you'd be lying nor that I didn't believe you. Fact of the matter you said it didn't happen to you right after my first post which although included a clear descirption it was not as illustrative as the video I posted afterwards. Therefore, there was clearly a good chance you wouldn't be able to reconstruct the bug properly!


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Update from Kawaius representative (I did not attach his name for privacy reasons):

Quote
Hello,



First let me say thank you for reporting this. I was able to check an ES920 here and I could reproduce the same result from your video. However it only seems to happen when using the F10H pedal. I couldn’t reproduce your results with the GFP-3 or F302 pedal board.



I believe this is a bug and I will report this to Japan and ask them to check it. I will let you know what I hear from them.






Regards,


Yo! I'm arranging sheet music for popular songs and soundtracks here
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