2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad) Piano Sight Reading
train piano sight reading with your iPhone or iPad
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
70 members (cfhosford, brdwyguy, ando, Carey, bobrunyan, CaseyVancouver, anotherscott, 17 invisible), 671 guests, and 446 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 2,047
I
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
I
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 2,047
Originally Posted by Eli26
I tried editing the last paragraph but I was too late, so I will add the edited last paragraph here:
be clear, even at 80 bpm things aren't perfectly smooth (with 4 notes per beat). I just was playing and with metronome yesterday. I may need to be much less than that to maintain smoothness. I do know what perfect scales sound like, playing them I probably need to be half that speed.
Please, note that playing scales without perfect smoothness is a complete waste of time and it's even harmful, because you learn incorrect motions that need to be unlearned later. Scales are only beneficial when they are played striving for sound perfection, not the speed. It's also a bad idea to play scales with metronome because a metronome hinders you from hearing all the nuances.

Concerning the original question, scales are not good for training 4th and 5th fingers because these fingers play too few notes in scales. I posted a couple of exercises some time ago that may help you.

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2753522/re-best-exercises.html#Post2753522
(fingers 345 section)

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...ce-exercises-suggestion.html#Post2929367
(only after the first exercise is fully mastered)

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,470
B
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,470
Originally Posted by Eli26
Originally Posted by bSharp(C)yclist
Time is the answer. It just takes time. The past year for me (4th year of piano) is where I finally felt like I could play significantly faster than before. I remember having a difficult time playing the RCM 3 pieces at the tempo indicated. Things like Clowns, Arabesque, Horseman, Clementi Sonatina, etc. Today, it's not an issue at all.

What I think helped me more than anything was to start playing in more relaxed manner, eliminate tension in my body, etc.

Thank you. But what did you do in the interim? I have advanced in my understanding of theory and musicality, again, credit is due to Albert at key-notes.com. I can play op 36 no 1, but I feel things out of control at higher tempos, etc. Do I keep advancing in repertoire, returning in a year or two when speed comes, and in the meantime playing all the high tempo stuff at the wrong tempo, then revisiting them again at proper tempos? What did you do?

I do come back and revisit old pieces. I actually play parts of the Clementi Sonatina just to warm up sometimes. I just pulled out a Diabelli piece I hadn't touched in years and can't believe how much more comfortable it is to play now. It feels like I can digest more while reading it. I think now after 5 years things are a little easier. It's hard to believe my first post here was almost 5 years ago now. Seems like yesterday!

This past year I tried to focus on more relaxed playing and by doing so I think that has allowed me to play faster. I don't try to incrementally tick up the tempo anymore really. I just play at a tempo that fells the most relaxed. Perhaps this is the difference.

I'm curious to see how things feel 5 years from now ;0


♯ ♮ ♭ ø ° Δ ♩ ♪ ♫ ♬
Yamaha C3X
YouTube
[Linked Image]
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,005
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,005
Originally Posted by bSharp(C)yclist
I do come back and revisit old pieces. I actually play parts of the Clementi Sonatina just to warm up sometimes. I just pulled out a Diabelli piece I hadn't touched in years and can't believe how much more comfortable it is to play now. It feels like I can digest more while reading it. I think now after 5 years things are a little easier. It's hard to believe my first post here was almost 5 years ago now. Seems like yesterday!
You have to be careful, though. Learning a piece that you already had significantly worked on before is much easier the second time and you may even recall parts of it with a minimal read through. This is possible even after years of not playing a piece. You should try to learn a new piece of similar difficulty to really assess how much you progressed. If you practice diligently you will be pleasantly surprised how easy it is to learn a piece that is below your current level.

Originally Posted by bSharp(C)yclist
This past year I tried to focus on more relaxed playing and by doing so I think that has allowed me to play faster. I don't try to incrementally tick up the tempo anymore really. I just play at a tempo that fells the most relaxed. Perhaps this is the difference.
I was never really concerned about tempo except to force myself to play slower while practicing in order to avoid making mistakes. I play at a tempo that feels comfortable and allows me to play without fumbling all the time.

This depends on two different things. First, there's the inherent maximum speed you are able to achieve, which is the limit of your technical abilities. If you can't play scales at 120 then you simply can't play a sonata that has long scale runs at 120. This limit increases over time but very, very slowly. It took me about 6 years to play scales at a tempo that you could reasonably call "Allegro". Every few months I make a little bit of progress but it's almost unnoticeable in everyday practice.

Second, is your ability to be mentally ahead of what you want to play at a given tempo. Most of the time when you stumble it's because of a mental gap that has you unprepared for what comes next not because your fingers are not able to play that fast. You can easily prove it by playing the most difficult 1-2 measure passages at maximum speed and comparing that to the speed at which you're able to play the whole piece.

Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 100
E
Eli26 Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
E
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 100
oops, trying to delete

Last edited by Eli26; 01/12/21 04:29 PM. Reason: meant to PM, not post on forum
Page 2 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  BB Player 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Couch to Concert Hall
Couch to Concert Hall
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
The Logo of the Future - Steingraeber
by Skjalg - 04/19/21 10:47 AM
Practuce With Czerny
by BbAltered - 04/19/21 10:05 AM
What to check when getting a new piano
by Dong Huynh - 04/19/21 05:13 AM
Standchen which version of sheet music ?
by jzmeister1 - 04/19/21 03:47 AM
Strings termination
by Guido, Roma - Italy - 04/19/21 03:04 AM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics206,395
Posts3,084,097
Members101,239
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5