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Hag: Listening to your recording, I don't find the half notes in the bass a problem. They sound fine. My one comment would be that you are swinging your right hand line whereas bossas are typically played with straight eight notes.

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Originally Posted by hag01
It's either that I'm not meeting the standards of the genere, or I'm expecting from myself too much, what do you think fellows?

The truth is it is hard to get a good groove for Brazilian music, and even harder to play it as solo piano. Probably this is why not many people attempt solo piano versions. I think it would be good to play along with some real bossa and to learn the basic bossa nova rhythms, like the standard comping rhythms that the guitar normally plays, maybe some of the percussion rhythms. Forget soloing on it for a while and just get the groove going with rhythmic comping over the bass line.
Of course in jazz bossa anything goes, you can swing the 1/8s if you like and not be worried about being 'authentic'.

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Not regarding bossa nova specifically. But left hand playing. Remember from piano teachers - practice hands separately. And practice whatever you're trying to get coordinated very slowly. As slowly as necessary to get it correct. Practice it repeatedly to get it ingrained in that motor part of your brain.

About 5 years ago I learned Louis Jordan's "Let The Good Times Roll" . At about 2min 25 sec begins a walkup in the left hand leading up steps and half steps. It has to be coordinated with the changes being played in the right hand. I broke it down and sometimes played it slowly 4 or 5 times, went on to something else and came back to it. Practice practice.



Last edited by indigo_dave; 12/15/20 05:08 PM.
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Originally Posted by jjo
Hag: Listening to your recording, I don't find the half notes in the bass a problem. They sound fine. My one comment would be that you are swinging your right hand line whereas bossas are typically played with straight eight notes.

Yeah, I was inspired by this performance of Oscar Peterson:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qGHyu5an1M

Is he doing here mainly swing?
Or I may be confused?

Last edited by hag01; 12/15/20 05:33 PM.
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From the second half of the 50s, a gradual transition from the shuffle triplet groove to straight 8/8 began, which inevitably created their clash in the same recordings: Tutti Frutti of Little Richard (1955), Love Me Do by Beatles (1962) Watermelon Man by H. Hancock (1962) . An exception symbolizing the full transition to 8/8 was the recording Stand By Me with Ben E. King (1960), whose songs were previously based on the rhythm of 8\8 twist (Drifters).
There are 2 problems for the pianist in this transition: timing of every "even" eighth and articulation. The standard triplet swing feel clashes with the straight eighths playback. The same applies to swing articulation
|| taa -DU aa-DU aa -DU aa-DU | ah etc ||
It is necessary to understand that the so-called. "even notes" exist in classical music, and are the basis of its sound production and rhythm. In pop , rock, latin jazz etc every eighth is performed differently than the two adjacent ones, only the timing of the eighths leaves a triplet feeling. For example, a shuffle sounds like this:
| taats DAATs tuuts DAATs |.
Swing in 8/8 sounds like this (with syncopation): || Di-dn DU-da a-ba Di-da | a-ba DU-da ad-n did-n ||

Last edited by Nahum; 12/16/20 04:25 AM.
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Hag: I hear Oscar Peterson doing a bit of a hybrid. Most of what he plays are straight 8th notes, but some have what I'd call a hint of swing. Your playing has the traditional swing triplet feel (the dotted eighth note quarter note type of feel). Without a rhythm section, for solo piano, straight 8th notes will get a sound more like most people play bossas.

But ultimately, you should trust your ear. If you hear a recording and you like the way you're imitating it, then it's right!

I'd also recommend a YouTube video on Girl From Ipanema by Adam Neely: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFWCbGzxofU It has a lot of interesting history about the song and the chord changes.

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This is still work in progress, but after a lot of work, here an improvisation which I'm doing the typical Bossa Nova bass pattern on the left hand, and straight 8th notes based groove solo improvisation on the right hand, please tell me what do you think, because I took very seriously your comments:
https://soundcloud.com/haggai-raveh...n-2-for-pianoworldcom-discussionno-swing

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Yes, that has changed for the better. There are many bass players videos on YouTube showing how to play the bossa (and almost everyone plays Girl From Ipanema :)); which is an example for pianists:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?:v=Yrrbv2JU3Kg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHux5zu8ORQ

But there is something else: your improvisation is too chromatic. Listen to Brazilian pianists - Jobim, Donato, Alfredo Cardim:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDJUoyiALPU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouhaxYuqZgY

Interestingly, in your quasi-classical compositions, melodic thinking is completely different. It is worth starting with it in improvisation, adding pentatonic, and not forgetting about the groove.

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Originally Posted by Nahum
But there is something else: your improvisation is too chromatic.
I meant before ending. Inserts of blues phrases also don't sound organic, unlike pentatonic ones. Brazilian pianists are also a model for stylistic articulation.

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When working on the bossa , the student first prepares permanent patterns in the left hand, which frees the mind from constant control and makes it easier to improvise in the right. Gradually, the patterns glued into a chain in the left hand turn into a long intonational-rhythmic snake, where the rigid rhythmic corset is weakened and the choice of pitches is facilitated - as is desirable in jazz.

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Stevie might do the Bread tune like this:



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Originally Posted by Nahum
But there is something else: your improvisation is too chromatic. Listen to Brazilian pianists - Jobim, Donato, Alfredo Cardim:

Well, about that I don't agree with you. I don't think I should be prevented from using chromatic moves on my soloing, even if it doesn't sound like authentic Bossa Nova to someone opinion, I'm still doing here jazz first of all.
About the rhythmic vibe of the Bossa Nova I do want to get it, but I'm not going to prevent myself from using any scale, chromaticism, or any melodic possibilities in my soloing in any way.

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Originally Posted by dire tonic
Here's my attempt at No More Blues from a PW Latin/Spanish recital a few years back

http://recitals.pianoworld.com/reportPerformance.php?id=2729
This is really amazing, can you tell me please whether it prearranged or improvised?

Sounds too complicated to be improvised, but who knows, there are geniuses in the world.

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Learn this, you can also use narrower voicings:


Jazz piano Instructor. Technical Editor for Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book". Studied with Mark Levine, Art Lande & Mark Isham (1981-1990). Also: Barry Harris & Monty Alexander (1993-present).
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Bossa nova:



Jazz piano Instructor. Technical Editor for Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book". Studied with Mark Levine, Art Lande & Mark Isham (1981-1990). Also: Barry Harris & Monty Alexander (1993-present).
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Of course you can do it with any cord voicings small or big even a 2 Level syncopated stride in that rhythm works well with half pedaling.
Or Try it with your left hand Bud Powell shells route seventh, route third, route seventh, route third, parenthesis here’s a tip insert the fifth under the seventh and beat three instead of the route


Jazz piano Instructor. Technical Editor for Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book". Studied with Mark Levine, Art Lande & Mark Isham (1981-1990). Also: Barry Harris & Monty Alexander (1993-present).
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Or Try it with your left hand Bud Powell shells route seventh, route third, root-seventh, root- 3rd (here’s a tip: play the 5th inside the shell on beat 3 instead of the root)


Jazz piano Instructor. Technical Editor for Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book". Studied with Mark Levine, Art Lande & Mark Isham (1981-1990). Also: Barry Harris & Monty Alexander (1993-present).
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“Sidewinder” (bass-piano) does the basic bossa pattern but the articulation is like a funk style.


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Originally Posted by hag01
Originally Posted by dire tonic
Here's my attempt at No More Blues from a PW Latin/Spanish recital a few years back

http://recitals.pianoworld.com/reportPerformance.php?id=2729
This is really amazing, can you tell me please whether it prearranged or improvised?

Sounds too complicated to be improvised, but who knows, there are geniuses in the world.

Some of it arranged, some initially noodled ideas. After playing it on and off over a couple of weeks it took shape gradually. Sadly, not a genius, I definitely wouldn't have been able to rattle this off spontaneously.

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