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OT: Use Triplets or 12/4?
#3053381 12/05/20 06:02 PM
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This is a music theory related question. Posting here instead of on Beginners forum (so OT-ing it) as this is my usual go-to forum, I rarely access the others. My knowledge of music theory is reasonable but not too deep so bear with me.

I am transcribing Nicolas Godin's Back to your heart as a learning step to later trying to make some proper arrangement for the piano. I am using 4/4 time signature. It turns out most of the measures have triplets with this signature. So I wondered, could this be transcribed using 12/4 instead so I would not have to make nearly every quarter note a triplet.

Is there a right or wrong here?

For the lazy ones, smile here is the song:


Kawai ES8, Roland RD2000, Yamaha AG06 mixer, Presonus Eris E5 monitors, Sennheiser HD598SR phones.
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Re: OT: Use Triplets or 12/4?
EVC2017 #3053397 12/05/20 06:45 PM
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12/8

Re: OT: Use Triplets or 12/4?
anotherscott #3053590 12/06/20 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by anotherscott
12/8

OOPS!!! It also makes more sense. Still, is 4/4 with triplets wrong? What defines one being better than the other, if that is the case?


Kawai ES8, Roland RD2000, Yamaha AG06 mixer, Presonus Eris E5 monitors, Sennheiser HD598SR phones.
Re: OT: Use Triplets or 12/4?
EVC2017 #3053594 12/06/20 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by EVC2017
Still, is 4/4 with triplets wrong?
No. My friends and I feel this in 4/4 so go with what seems more natural to you. IMHO.

Re: OT: Use Triplets or 12/4?
EVC2017 #3053626 12/06/20 11:36 AM
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4/4 where the beats consistently break into triplets is what 12/8 is. This song is counted as "one-and-uh two-and-uh," not "one-and two-and."

COULD you notate it in 4/4? Sure. Technically, you COULD take a song in A major, and notate it as being in C major, manually sharping every every C, F, and G as it occurs. It's more work to notate and more work to read, and implies the wrong sense of tonal center, but in the end, a player playing from such a transcription would still produce the same result. But why would you want to do that?

Another way to look at it: Let's say you want to try playing your piano score with a drummer. Ask him to give you a 12/8 beat at about 77 bpm, and it will give you the feel of this song. Ask him to give you a 4/4 beat, it won't.

Re: OT: Use Triplets or 12/4?
anotherscott #3053735 12/06/20 03:49 PM
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That's the definitive answer, Mr. Scott.
Originally Posted by anotherscott
4/4 where the beats consistently break into triplets is what 12/8 is. This song is counted as "one-and-uh two-and-uh," not "one-and two-and."

COULD you notate it in 4/4? Sure. Technically, you COULD take a song in A major, and notate it as being in C major, manually sharping every every C, F, and G as it occurs. It's more work to notate and more work to read, and implies the wrong sense of tonal center, but in the end, a player playing from such a transcription would still produce the same result. But why would you want to do that?

Another way to look at it: Let's say you want to try playing your piano score with a drummer. Ask him to give you a 12/8 beat at about 77 bpm, and it will give you the feel of this song. Ask him to give you a 4/4 beat, it won't.

Re: OT: Use Triplets or 12/4?
EVC2017 #3053752 12/06/20 04:25 PM
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Thank you all for your answers.

AS's explanation makes sense. But, like NP, 4/4 feels more right for some reason. My understanding from both answers is either way is OK, maybe 12/8 better technically speaking.

I started transcribing the song with 4/4 signature because I was working on a groove suggested by my teacher (learned by ear) and I made a little mistake as I was transcribing the chords to the groove. It was only when I started trancribing the melody itself I did realize groove and melody dit not fit. After I fixed the groove, everything fit and sounded OK.

Here is the first page of my "transcription", between quotes because only the voice part and the instrument solo bridges were really trancribed. Now the real fun starts, how to make this song sound good on a piano with much less information than the electronic version.

[Linked Image]


Kawai ES8, Roland RD2000, Yamaha AG06 mixer, Presonus Eris E5 monitors, Sennheiser HD598SR phones.
Re: OT: Use Triplets or 12/4?
EVC2017 #3053822 12/06/20 08:29 PM
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In this case I would use 12/8. In classical music it's very common to just indicate the first few triplets when it's obvious that what follows are triplets too. In this case I think 12/8 would make much more sense and be easier to read.

Re: OT: Use Triplets or 12/4?
EVC2017 #3053895 12/07/20 01:58 AM
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😉

[Linked Image]

Re: OT: Use Triplets or 12/4?
EVC2017 #3053930 12/07/20 05:03 AM
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I lean toward 12/8 in the stated case ... but in other music some respected musicians think otherwise.
Here's a well-known example of an early publication and a modern urtext printing:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

He uses cut-time. This gives us the strong beats. The triplets give the 12/8 flavor.


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