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Ultrashort piano comparison
#3051533 12/01/20 07:12 AM
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Here are five short excerpts from five pianos, the entire file is under 1 minute:
Comparison

You can comment, compare, rank, praise, bash, try to guess what is what smile


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Re: Ultrashort piano comparison
CyberGene #3051540 12/01/20 07:32 AM
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Sounds like the musical soundtrack for the hit film: “How to properly measure key weight”. This is the scene where they search for the McGuffin. :-)

Re: Ultrashort piano comparison
CyberGene #3051542 12/01/20 07:40 AM
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1. Pianoteq
2. Garritan cfx
3. Pianoteq
4. Garritan cfx
5. Pianoteq

Kind of hard to rank or praise without actual pieces of music.

(I changed it a couple of times, this is my definitive list.) smile

Re: Ultrashort piano comparison
CyberGene #3051543 12/01/20 07:41 AM
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I have no idea really and just adding the reverb might make it more difficult to tell a difference.

But as a wild guess I could say that the first one is Pianoteq, the last one is a Yamaha digital piano and the others are some sampled VSTis or digital pianos.

The third one is a German grand and the fourth is a Japanese one.

Some of them might be the same one with a different amount of reverb.

None is an acoustic one. None sounded horrible. Also none is Casio's "Hamburg Grand" or Kurzweil's "Triple Strike" Steinway or a 90's Clavinova.

Re: Ultrashort piano comparison
CyberGene #3051553 12/01/20 07:55 AM
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Actually i'm only quite sure about 1 and 2, the rest i'm not so sure about, and I'm not familiar with any internal dp sounds.

Re: Ultrashort piano comparison
CyberGene #3051554 12/01/20 08:05 AM
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Fascinating.

Was this played once to midi and then used to generate the 5 samples, or was it played 5 times separately?

Re: Ultrashort piano comparison
CyberGene #3051555 12/01/20 08:05 AM
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My authoritative (actually nothing of the kind) findings:

  • 1: Too metallic.
  • 2: A bit too much reverb, but pleasant
  • 3: A bit too little reverb, and cold
  • 4: Weird
  • 5: Ok, but not as nice as 2.


Roland FP-30, Roland E-28
Synthogy Ivory II Studio Grands, Production Voices Estate Grand, Garritan CFX Lite, Pianoteq 7.0 (Blüthner, Bechstein DG, Grotrian, Steinway D, K2)
Re: Ultrashort piano comparison
Svennig #3051556 12/01/20 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Svennig
Fascinating.

Was this played once to midi and then used to generate the 5 samples, or was it played 5 times separately?

I played 5 times, no MIDI.


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Ultrashort piano comparison
CyberGene #3051579 12/01/20 09:26 AM
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My guess:

1. Pianoteq
2. Garritan
3. Another Pianoteq
4. N1X
5. Yet another pianoteq

As others have said, 2 and 4 have considerably more reverb than 1,3,5 and that (plus volume level) makes it more complicated to identify.

When this game is over, please contribute to http://pianosound.wikidot.com/start laugh

Re: Ultrashort piano comparison
CyberGene #3051618 12/01/20 11:33 AM
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Those all sound rather identical to me, at least without headphones. Will have another try with my piano headphones later.

Re: Ultrashort piano comparison
FloRi89 #3051628 12/01/20 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by FloRi89
Those all sound rather identical to me, at least without headphones.

That's the problem with scraggy computer speakers....

Re: Ultrashort piano comparison
CyberGene #3051632 12/01/20 11:59 AM
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Here are the pianos:


1. Pianoteq 7 NY Steinway, default preset (I believe it was Prelude "something", fresh install of the latest Pianoteq from today)
2. Garritan CFX - slightly lowered distant mics, but I guess I had to decrease them more, because it was still apparent that it's Garritan CFX. On the other hand that's the beauty of Garritan CFX full and I don't believe I should hamper it.
3. N1X CFX binaural with added reverb from GarageBand's default reverb - maybe had to add more reverb
3. N1X CFX stereo with GB reverb as above
4. N1X Bosendorfer stereo with GB reverb

Why I decided to to this boring comparison? Because I've read some praises about the NY Steinway in Pianoteq. Downloaded it and immediately realized nothing has changed regarding the three main issues I've always had with Pianoteq and have thoroughly reported during my participation on the Pianoteq beta testing team many years ago:

1. Playing short (almost staccato) alternating notes in the middle octave produces a very distinctive synthetic (nasal) transition between the notes
2. Playing the same in the higher octaves produces an unnatural metallic sound
3. Playing short (pronounced when loud) bass notes produces a very hollow sound, as though the strings are from rubber and not metal

I then played the same with other pianos for comparison. Everybody recognized Pianoteq and that's an eloquent fact for why if you target its apparent weaknesses, everyone will be able to recognize it.


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Ultrashort piano comparison
CyberGene #3051645 12/01/20 12:37 PM
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Hm you only had three opinions so far of witch:


- 2 Guessed PT right
- 2 Guessed Garritan CFX right
- 2 misstook the N1X for PT
- 1 misstook the N1X for Garritan CFX

And the last one gave no guess, but found PT to metallic, Garritan had too much reverb and the N1X didn't exactly get better marks.

Quote
Everybody recognized Pianoteq and that's an eloquent fact for why if you target its apparent weaknesses, everyone will be able to recognize it.

So that also proves that the biggest weakness of Garritan CFX is the fact that is was made in Abbey Road studios and everyone is immedeatly able to recognize the sound? I mean O.K, debatable. It sure is a fact that the Abbey Road Studio sound is a distinct part of Garritan, but this weakness is the selling point to a lot of people who buy it.

Re: Ultrashort piano comparison
CyberGene #3051648 12/01/20 12:47 PM
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IMO (and I want to stress this out: IMO) Pianoteq is so recognizable because of its crapiness. Garritan CFX is recognizable because of its greatness. Anyone is free to dispute that 😀 And to have a totally different opinion.

Last edited by CyberGene; 12/01/20 12:48 PM.

My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Ultrashort piano comparison
CyberGene #3051650 12/01/20 12:56 PM
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IMO, Garritan CFX sounds very nice but it is too smooth (too forgiving of sloppy touch) compared to a real piano. Pianoteq responsiveness is possibly closest to that of a real piano, though its sound quality is worse than the best VSTs. I think the NY Steinway in Pianoteq 7 is an improvement. I now prefer it to all the others. Still, it does not sound like an acoustic piano. But for my practice it's either that or VSL's Vienna Imperial which is VERY unforgiving of less than perfect touch (alas my touch is far from good, let alone perfect).

Re: Ultrashort piano comparison
CyberGene #3051651 12/01/20 12:57 PM
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BTW, the N1X sound falls short in comparison to Garritan CFX and is rather close to Pianoteq. Not sure if that speaks high of Pianoteq, or low of Yamaha... In any case, the strength of N1X is the keyboard. Not so much the sound. But in any case: N1X is most playable with its own sound, then almost as playable with Garritan CFX, and pretty weird with Pianoteq. Maybe it needs touch response curve and some messing around, I don't know.


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Ultrashort piano comparison
CyberGene #3051655 12/01/20 01:15 PM
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Based on the discussion, this test seems to prove that everything sounds like Pianoteq, except when there's a lot of reverb? laugh

Interesting results that can certainly be put to use.

Re: Ultrashort piano comparison
CyberGene #3051656 12/01/20 01:18 PM
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BTW, I may be wrong but I don't think the distant mics in the Garritan CFX should be called "reverb". They are not "added" and are not "reverb". They are the very same piano, recorded beautifully with multiple microphones, both close and distant, it's rather sampling the actual ambience and not "reverb" in the strict sense. Adding "reverb" to Pianoteq or N1X is rather a DSP/algorithm stuff which is why it doesn't help a lot.

Last edited by CyberGene; 12/01/20 01:19 PM.

My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Ultrashort piano comparison
CyberGene #3051657 12/01/20 01:28 PM
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I listened to it with headphones, I liked the third option the most, it turned out to be the N1X binarual sound, the most realistic for the player position. Saturated, concentrated, light tone. Pianoteq reveals more in the external audio system, not headphones. Try Blüthner Pianoteq7.
Can't share the love for Garritan. It sounds a little sweet and too pretty, when you play it, it sounds too perfect and ... boring. There is a feeling that someone is playing for you, with limited capabilities. Sound is always in the context of room acoustics. As if listening to a recording. Insufficient sense of string interaction, touch control / sound attack. my IMHO.

Last edited by Evgeny 85; 12/01/20 01:32 PM.

VSL Steinway D-274, Pianoteq 7, Ravenscroft 275
Re: Ultrashort piano comparison
CyberGene #3051659 12/01/20 01:31 PM
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And for such great test, I wanted to try even more N1X. =)


VSL Steinway D-274, Pianoteq 7, Ravenscroft 275
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