2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
106 members (anotherpianoplayer, ambrozy, Animisha, Abdol, akc42, Anglagard44, 8ude, AndrewJCW, 26 invisible), 686 guests, and 572 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
loudness/projection vs. bright/mellow
#3051425 11/30/20 08:19 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 67
P
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 67
Question: does voicing a piano to be more mellow and less bright also effect volume and projection? Can one get a softer more mellow sound without having the piano sound more muffled? Thanks.

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Re: loudness/projection vs. bright/mellow
Piano Math #3051433 11/30/20 08:37 PM
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 1,079
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 1,079
Projection would be more of a function of soundboard capabilities. Volume and muffled would be the density of the hammer. Mellow would be the top part(tip) of the hammer. So yes, a hammer can be voiced to be mellow without sounding muffled to an extent.

-chris


Chernobieff Piano Restorations
"Where Tone is Key"
Lenoir City, Tennessee U.S.A
www.chernobieffpiano.com
grandpianoman@protonmail.com
Re: loudness/projection vs. bright/mellow
Piano Math #3051435 11/30/20 08:42 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,115
E
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
E
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,115
Originally Posted by Piano Math
Question: does voicing a piano to be more mellow and less bright also effect volume and projection? Can one get a softer more mellow sound without having the piano sound more muffled? Thanks.

Greetings,
Yes, yes, or maybe or no. It can go any way possible depending on where you are starting from.

Let's consider the perfect hammer. It will produce a very mellow tone at the softest play and a clangorous crashing note on the most forceful play. At all levels tone in between mellow and brilliance will be gradual and even. Thus the pianist can control dynamics with tone as well as volume/.
However, a perfect hammer in a recording studio has to be much harder and have far less range in tone, (too hard to mix the piano in as a track when it is too complex a range of tone).
And, the perfect hammer for a full size piano used to accompany singers may need to be less aggressive in tone than others.

If you have a hard, inflexible hammer and it is "voiced", you may actually get more volume and projection. It might be as "loud", but often a voicer can produce a fuller, bigger tone, as well as a gradient up to brilliance. Yes, as softer sound can be had without being muffled. It requires the voicer to leave a deeply resilient hammer with some firmness close enough to the strike point to add the highs needed for definition. An overly voiced hammer doesn't produce the highest partials, (overtones) in the string, even at the most forceful play. An under voiced hammer will perhaps be clear and mellow at soft play, but quickly become harsh as soon as you add some force.

Regards,

Re: loudness/projection vs. bright/mellow
Piano Math #3051454 11/30/20 09:56 PM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,757
P
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,757
So the answer is: It depends.

What brand and type of instrument do you have?

Peter Grey Piano Doctor


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: loudness/projection vs. bright/mellow
Piano Math #3051470 11/30/20 11:04 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 13,806
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 13,806
Years ago I bought an early 2000s model Petrof P115 (46") studio upright for a pretty good price. I liked it a lot when I first got it. It was very mellow. I'd describe the tone as very warm, and mellow. It was a pleasant tone, and the Renner action felt good at my fingertips.

But after a while, when I'd want to play some hard-driving boogie-woogie on the Petrof, I could play the notes hard, and still got a soft, mellow tone. Maybe it was just my playing, or the kind of music I like to play, but after a while the mellow tone seemed too mellow for my taste. Not much attack, particularly in the mid and upper octaves.

I never attempted to voice the Petrof, and figured that was its voice, for better or worse. I kept the piano about a year or two and then sold it.

This is just my opinion here, but I think a piano can be voiced so that a really bright piano is less bright, or a really mellow piano is less mellow, but I don't think that any amount of voicing can change the inherent tone of a piano drastically. However, too much voicing can make the tone more mellow, and kill the attack/power at FFF.

Hammer voicing does intrigue me, however.

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: loudness/projection vs. bright/mellow
Piano Math #3051476 11/30/20 11:26 PM
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 661
P
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 661
No, they are separate issues, unless the voicing is done only by needles. Voicing also has to do with hammer shape and weight. When a tech simply sticks a needle in the the top of the hammer, especially when it is directly under the string mark, it is going to produce a mellow and muffled tone. If you want power and projection, you need to regulate hammer weight and the size of the strike point. By dealing with hammer weight and shape, we can also alter how thick or thin the tone is. This all factors into volume and projection, in addition to the pianists ability to voice a chord.


Moderated by  Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
Our January 2021 Free Newsletter for piano lovers is here now...
---------------------
NEW! Sell Your Piano on our world famous Piano Forums!
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Online lessons suggestion/recommend
ations/experiences?

by Javaslinger - 01/26/21 01:32 PM
What’s the best Fender Rhodes VST?
by RinTin - 01/26/21 01:09 PM
mp7es recording
by Colette2 - 01/26/21 01:00 PM
Log Sheets to Track Scale & Arpeggio Practice
by Talão - 01/26/21 12:21 PM
Fanny Hensel Sonata in G minor
by Ainar - 01/26/21 12:01 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics204,571
Posts3,051,806
Members100,221
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4