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playing by ear
#3051159 11/30/20 09:49 AM
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My experience is this: piano are often taught by different method that have one thing in common. They all require a piano student to repeat music from a score without much musical understanding,
This method never really worked for me. Perhaps I have a problem that many people don't have: I need musical understanding.
Most people just repeat what is written in the score.
I just don't understand why this even works for people. To me not playing by ear and transposing music seems kind of strange.
Are there certain tricks one must use in order to learn piano without needing to play by ear?

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Re: playing by ear
Manne janne #3051165 11/30/20 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Manne janne
My experience is this: piano are often taught by different method that have one thing in common. They all require a piano student to repeat music from a score without much musical understanding,

What is such an absurd statement based on !?

Re: playing by ear
Nahum #3051166 11/30/20 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Nahum
Originally Posted by Manne janne
My experience is this: piano are often taught by different method that have one thing in common. They all require a piano student to repeat music from a score without much musical understanding,

What is such an absurd statement based on !?
what is absurd? Are you saying that students actually do play by ear?

Last edited by Manne janne; 11/30/20 09:58 AM.
Re: playing by ear
Manne janne #3051169 11/30/20 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Manne janne
My experience is this: piano are often taught by different method that have one thing in common. They all require a piano student to repeat music from a score without much musical understanding,
This method never really worked for me. Perhaps I have a problem that many people don't have: I need musical understanding.
Most people just repeat what is written in the score.
I just don't understand why this even works for people. To me not playing by ear and transposing music seems kind of strange.
Are there certain tricks one must use in order to learn piano without needing to play by ear?

This might be strange to you but it feels right at home to me and many, many other people. Some people learn better by ear, others are visual learners. Nothing strange about either type of learner. They are just different. If you don't understand how such a method even works for other people, then don't try to understand it. Just use the method that works for you. It's really that simple.


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Re: playing by ear
WeakLeftHand #3051172 11/30/20 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by WeakLeftHand
Originally Posted by Manne janne
My experience is this: piano are often taught by different method that have one thing in common. They all require a piano student to repeat music from a score without much musical understanding,
This method never really worked for me. Perhaps I have a problem that many people don't have: I need musical understanding.
Most people just repeat what is written in the score.
I just don't understand why this even works for people. To me not playing by ear and transposing music seems kind of strange.
Are there certain tricks one must use in order to learn piano without needing to play by ear?

This might be strange to you but it feels right at home to me and many, many other people. Some people learn better by ear, others are visual learners. Nothing strange about either type of learner. They are just different. If you don't understand how such a method even works for other people, then don't try to understand it. Just use the method that works for you. It's really that simple.
I guess you are right. Some people need to understand what they learn. I needed to learn English by understand the language. This method might not be for everyone. They just repeat texts on a paper and talk. We are all different.

Last edited by Manne janne; 11/30/20 10:14 AM.
Re: playing by ear
Manne janne #3051174 11/30/20 10:22 AM
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I have a feeling that the word "understanding" means different things to different people in this thread.

But I may have misunderstood. smile


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Re: playing by ear
QuasiUnaFantasia #3051180 11/30/20 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by QuasiUnaFantasia
I have a feeling that the word "understanding" means different things to different people in this thread.

But I may have misunderstood. smile
That seems to be the case.
People who can play by ear, I say, do understand music. People who can play by ear in a style MOzart used understand that style.

Last edited by Manne janne; 11/30/20 10:34 AM.
Re: playing by ear
Manne janne #3051190 11/30/20 10:58 AM
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Manny
Pianists who play with the score absolutely need to understand the music. It is not just ‘repeat’ what is written.


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
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Re: playing by ear
Manne janne #3051197 11/30/20 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Manne janne
My experience is this: piano are often taught by different method that have one thing in common. They all require a piano student to repeat music from a score without much musical understanding,

I find your assertion quite odd. What makes you think that there is no musical understanding involved in learning pieces from a score?


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Re: playing by ear
Manne janne #3051205 11/30/20 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Manne janne
Originally Posted by Nahum
Originally Posted by Manne janne
My experience is this: piano are often taught by different method that have one thing in common. They all require a piano student to repeat music from a score without much musical understanding,

What is such an absurd statement based on !?
what is absurd? Are you saying that students actually do play by ear?
The meaning of your quote is absurd, there is not a word about playing by ear. Apparently, you are not clear what it means to "understand music" if you mention only the style.

Re: playing by ear
Manne janne #3051218 11/30/20 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Manne janne
Originally Posted by QuasiUnaFantasia
I have a feeling that the word "understanding" means different things to different people in this thread.

But I may have misunderstood. smile
That seems to be the case.
People who can play by ear, I say, do understand music. People who can play by ear in a style MOzart used understand that style.

Very commonly people will imply in the word "understand" that the understanding takes place via the conscious mind, using logic and reason applied to basic assumptions. You seem to imply by that same word (at least in a musical context) that the understanding requires the use of sound. This requirement will very often not be seen as necessary for "understanding" (as in: people who have been deaf since birth may still "understand").


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Re: playing by ear
Montuno #3051220 11/30/20 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Montuno
Originally Posted by Manne janne
My experience is this: piano are often taught by different method that have one thing in common. They all require a piano student to repeat music from a score without much musical understanding,

I find your assertion quite odd. What makes you think that there is no musical understanding involved in learning pieces from a score?
perhaps different teacher use different method. When I tried to learn Bwv anh 114 with a certain teacher it did not work. I was only taught to repeat the notes that was written in the sheet music. Understand was out of the question. I only really learned it years later when I tried to understand the music.
Many piano teacher should never become teachers, I think.

Last edited by Manne janne; 11/30/20 12:10 PM.
Re: playing by ear
Manne janne #3051227 11/30/20 12:20 PM
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Manne
I think you should have more experience with learning to read music before you come to a generalized statement about learning to read music and understanding music, including how it is taught


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
"I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

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Re: playing by ear
dogperson #3051266 11/30/20 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by dogperson
Manne
I think you should have more experience with learning to read music before you come to a generalized statement about learning to read music and understanding music, including how it is taught
My frustration is when teachers only use sheet music. I like when teachers also use playing by ear.
I think most teachers think that the goal of taking piano lessons is learning to be very good at playing from a written score.
Even when I practice that I find myself needing to use playing by ear in my learning.
I think that playing by ear can make one a better at reading sheet music and understanding music.
This is all I have to say. We are all different. Some are born with the ability to look at a score and just repeat the note on the piano. Some need to use learning by ear as well in their learning.
We are all different. It's just that playing by ear is very uncommon in classical piano methods.
No wonder many children stop taking piano lessons when they become bit older.

Last edited by Manne janne; 11/30/20 01:25 PM.
Re: playing by ear
Manne janne #3051274 11/30/20 01:34 PM
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If I had to play by ear I would have a hard time even doing Chopsticks.
I need the score! SHOW me the NOTES!


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Nope, no issues with it at all.
Took lessons from 1960 to 1969, stopped at age 16.
Started again in July 2020 at age 67. Lots more fun now!
Re: playing by ear
Manne janne #3051280 11/30/20 01:45 PM
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It is common that if people have played by ear, they may find stressful to try to learn to read. Often people who sight read very well cannot memorize music.
We have a member here who plays by ear .He has made many videos on YouTube.He plays and sings very well.
You may still find a teacher who will.give you the freedom to play by ear and learn to read.She may insist on things like correct fingerimg, hand position , being sure of the time of the pieces you learn to read .
It would be difficult to teach in one way and then allow freedom in playing by ear ,but not
impossible. I do not think I could do it though.
Still playing by ear is still performing music. Best wishes.

Re: playing by ear
Manne janne #3051308 11/30/20 02:37 PM
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Learn Bach's C minor fugue from WTK by ear ,without notes; and then, also without notes, analyze it - to prove your understanding of music. Then the discussion can start; for now it's just a pose.

Last edited by Nahum; 11/30/20 02:38 PM.
Re: playing by ear
Manne janne #3051310 11/30/20 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Manne janne
To me not playing by ear and transposing music seems kind of strange.
I agree.

Every beginner should learn to transpose pieces composed in C major to G# major before they learn to read music.
Quote
Are there certain tricks one must use in order to learn piano without needing to play by ear?
Yes, the trick is called learning to read music.


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Re: playing by ear
Manne janne #3051318 11/30/20 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Manne janne
Some need to use learning by ear as well in their learning.
We are all different. It's just that playing by ear is very uncommon in classical piano methods.

The phrase "playing by ear" means different things to different people.

And then you say things like "understand the music".

Whoa .... another phrase which means different things to different people.

Very difficult to have a meaningful conversation about things for which there is no universal meaning.

I guess my question would be ...

What prompted you to come to this forum and start a new thread about something like this ?

Did you have a bad experience lately which made you feel a need to argue with somebody about something ?

Lessons going badly ?

Progress going badly ?

What is it ?

What is the problem ?


Don

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Re: playing by ear
Manne janne #3051330 11/30/20 03:46 PM
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Why does this thread remind me of The Legend of 1900 ?

Last edited by trooplewis; 11/30/20 03:51 PM.

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Nope, no issues with it at all.
Took lessons from 1960 to 1969, stopped at age 16.
Started again in July 2020 at age 67. Lots more fun now!
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