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Why no enough like for Casio GP?
#3051067 11/29/20 11:12 PM
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I noticed that every time when Casio GP was discussed, people start to argue whether it is a hybrid. While it seems true that Casio has some exaggerated marketing, it is a good digital piano in its price range. People like Kawai CA, MP11 and even VPC-1. Yamaha has some popular models like CLPs and P-515. I don’t see many people praising the Casio GP series.

Or is it because Casio does not have enough pianos to try in their distribution networks?


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Re: Why no enough like for Casio GP?
Harpuia #3051074 11/29/20 11:28 PM
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I have had mine for 2+ years. It is a great substitute for my other piano.


When you play, never mind who listens to you. R.Schumann.

Casio GP-400
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Re: Why no enough like for Casio GP?
Harpuia #3051075 11/29/20 11:55 PM
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Pianos are not the first thing that come to most people's minds when you mention the name Casio.


Yamaha AvantGrand N1X
Re: Why no enough like for Casio GP?
Harpuia #3051081 11/30/20 12:42 AM
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It is praised less because it is bought less. And it is bought less because like with any other brand - not enough prestige accumulated so far. There are tons of chinese android smartphones that are cheaper and better than Samsung, but people prefer Samsung because it is well established.

Casio got into premium DP segment relative late, when brands like Yamaha were there for decades already. So there are still trust issues.

my personal experience - I have bought px-870 for myself last year and GP for my sister abroad. My action gave up after a month and I had to return the piano, and when selecting a new one I did not look into casio again, while my sister is happy enough with her GP so far.

Re: Why no enough like for Casio GP?
Harpuia #3051083 11/30/20 12:47 AM
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I love my GP400 (even if I am currently frustrated with some issues with running a VST without generating electrical noise). I think it's a couple of things (1) limited distribution networks (2) People don't associate CASIO with anything other than watches, calculators, and synthesizer-type keyboards..... not pianos (3) as much as I love mine (And got a great deal) you could argue that the normal prices for these are higher than the competition. Especially now that they got rid of the 400, the fully featured version (ie the 510) does seem a bit expensive. (When they had the 400, the upgrade from the 300 wasn't that much --- now there is a $2000 jump between the two models, which seems VERY steep.) That said, I love the action in mine, I like seeing those hammers whether or not they are just for show, I like lifting the lid and opening up the sound, and the tones, in my opinion, are really nice as well.

Re: Why no enough like for Casio GP?
lgsml #3051085 11/30/20 12:48 AM
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That's a nice gift for your sister, lgsml.


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Why no enough like for Casio GP?
Harpuia #3051088 11/30/20 12:56 AM
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How much like for the Casio GP would be enough?

What's an appropriate amount?

Re: Why no enough like for Casio GP?
Harpuia #3051090 11/30/20 01:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Harpuia
I noticed that every time when Casio GP was discussed, people start to argue whether it is a hybrid. While it seems true that Casio has some exaggerated marketing, it is a good digital piano in its price range. I don’t see many people praising the Casio GP series.

Is it because Casio does not have enough pianos to try in their distribution networks?
Traditionally Casio have owned the low-end sub-$1000 price point. So people shopping for mid-range to high-end pianos would never have compared Casios before.

That is one reason, another is that these GP models are now often over-priced. E.g. the GP-300 used to sell for about USD $2,500 - however they jacked up the price on the GP-310 to around USD $3,000 for no apparent added value (they didn't add Bluetooth or any new features, though they improved the speaker system slightly I think and claim to have upgraded the samples which actually costs $0 to Casio).

Last edited by Burkey; 11/30/20 01:47 AM.

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Re: Why no enough like for Casio GP?
Harpuia #3051092 11/30/20 01:51 AM
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I have a Casio PX870. I like its default Grand piano sound very much. The problem with that 870 was the action. Not good. The short pivot. Some keys noisier than others. On mine in particular, the C key right of middle C was wobbly and clicked right out of the box. Basically defective. Playing it for about 10 months, a couple other keys developed a similar flaw, but not as nearly bad as that C key.

In the USA Casio gives a 1 year parts and labor warranty. So, at about at 11 months I took it in for service stating I had 3 defective keys which rattled.

The result..... and this surprised me quite a bit.... They said they can’t replace individual keys so they are going to replace the entire keyboard assy. Hmmmmm? It’s been there a couple months now and the repair center says they’re still waiting for the new keyboard assy to arrive. Perhaps the long wait time is CV 19 related. I’m very curious how this new keyboard assy will function. Hopefully I’ll find out soon.

I played a couple older Yamahas in the same price range as the Casio 870 and they both had similar key issues as the Casio. And I was unimpressed with their sound.

But of course this has nothing to do with the Casio GP series. I would be real interested in trying one. Totally different action than my 870. Images of the GP action impress me as being a quality action. And like I said, I like the Casio sound. I’d bet that GP series is a VERY nice digital piano!

I’d guess the main reason people avoid Casio DPs, as others here mentioned, is because the ‘Casio’ name being associated with cheap watches and calculators.

Muskie

Re: Why no enough like for Casio GP?
Harpuia #3051096 11/30/20 02:21 AM
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I find the Casio discussion here weird.

People are trying to come up with excuses why Casio isn't praised enough.

If I had tried out Casio GPs myself and for some "strange" (perfectly valid though subjective) reasons didn't like them, I'd find it a bit arrogant for others to say that I don't like the Casio GPs just because:
- It says Casio on the cabinet
- Casio used to be identified with cheap digital pianos
- Casio makes calculators (and watches and vending machines and video projectors and whatnot)
- I'm just being a pretentious snob, basically (My hypothetical words, not quoting anyone. 😉)

Not because I actually tested them myself and know what I'm talking about.

There are people who have actually tried them and have provided us with their opinions. Some like them very much. Others are not too impressed and might say things like "Nothing more special than a Kawai CA series". (Which in itself wouldn't be a bad assesment at all.)

But I haven't tested the Casio GPs and haven't provided my own opinion, so I don't actually care that much about the tone of the discussion.

But it just feels like people want to dismiss any valid critique as "Casio bashing". And that has been brought up before here. This isn't a Casio "safe space". We can say bad things too. Or not keep saying good things all the time if there's nothing new to say.

(And it's equally important that good things about Casio can be said too without them being dismissed for wrong reasons.)

Re: Why no enough like for Casio GP?
Harpuia #3051097 11/30/20 02:37 AM
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^ This!

All brands are being bashed equally. No piano is spared.

I don’t like the Casio piano sound. Plain and simple. I’ve tested one of the GP-pianos. Not good, not terrible. Even if it had Fazioli written on it, I would still be unimpressed.

And I’d go the other way around. I think the GP-pianos may be unjustifiably praised sometimes not because they are actually better but because people tend to believe marketing more than their ears and fingers.


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Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Why no enough like for Casio GP?
Harpuia #3051103 11/30/20 03:15 AM
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Simply: For what they are, Casio GP's cost to much. They have strong competitors with more quality and experience.


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Pianoteq 7 Pro | Garritan CFX Full | Minigrand | VI Labs: Ravenscroft 275 - Modern U
Re: Why no enough like for Casio GP?
Harpuia #3051106 11/30/20 04:14 AM
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When I went DP shopping 2.5 years ago (in a much lower price range), I also tried the most expensive non-hybrid models from Yamaha and Kawai, and also a Casio GP piano. I found the action on the Casio VASTLY superior to the counterparts on the Yamaha (especially, it was rigid like drying cement) and Kawai (too light and flimsy). The sound quality was comparable among all of them. If I were to buy one of these now, I would almost certainly choose the Casio because of the action.


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Re: Why no enough like for Casio GP?
Harpuia #3051114 11/30/20 04:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Harpuia
I noticed that every time when Casio GP was discussed, people start to argue whether it is a hybrid. While it seems true that Casio has some exaggerated marketing, it is a good digital piano in its price range. People like Kawai CA, MP11 and even VPC-1. Yamaha has some popular models like CLPs and P-515. I don’t see many people praising the Casio GP series.

Or is it because Casio does not have enough pianos to try in their distribution networks?

People here love to dissect details about instruments. The GP sound is a bit behind but it's main lack compared to the top CLP models is the amplification. The action is pretty decent on the GP510.


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7SE; Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: Why no enough like for Casio GP?
Harpuia #3051117 11/30/20 05:10 AM
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We are biased and this is the reason why we hold on to “it’s not a real hybrid”, and consistently mock and bash Casio.

The truth is that Casios are good, and their partnership with Bechstein hints at even better things to come, but this is not something that Casio wants to rush (a so-called real hybrid) because the big guns basically have the market cornered.

When you look at the Casio GP the first thing you notice is that you’re getting a lot of bang for the buck; including, but not limited to spruce keys, a Kawai-like action mechanism, decent samples, cabinet, and speakers, etc. for a lot less than a similarly specked Yamaha.


Casios are good (we simply love to hate them).

Re: Why no enough like for Casio GP?
Pete14 #3051120 11/30/20 05:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Pete14
Casios are good (we simply love to hate them).

We also hate to love them.


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Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Why no enough like for Casio GP?
Harpuia #3051123 11/30/20 05:46 AM
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True that!

Re: Why no enough like for Casio GP?
Pete14 #3051128 11/30/20 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Pete14
We are biased and this is the reason why we hold on to “it’s not a real hybrid”, and consistently mock and bash Casio.

The truth is that Casios are good, and their partnership with Bechstein hints at even better things to come, but this is not something that Casio wants to rush (a so-called real hybrid) because the big guns basically have the market cornered.

When you look at the Casio GP the first thing you notice is that you’re getting a lot of bang for the buck; including, but not limited to spruce keys, a Kawai-like action mechanism, decent samples, cabinet, and speakers, etc. for a lot less than a similarly specked Yamaha.


Casios are good (we simply love to hate them).

What they've done is find a way to develop an action that sits between the Grand Feel 3 and the full acoustic action. The concept from a market standpoint is solid; however, the execution is let down by the fact that the CLP785 sounds a lot better through its speakers. Also, without a VST, the Casio sample doesn't quite stack up.

Thus, you're paying a higher price for an action that is better but only 30% better.

I think that they need to sort out the failings and re-release it. Then, what you're buying is a great deal..

Last edited by Doug M.; 11/30/20 06:22 AM.

Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7SE; Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: Why no enough like for Casio GP?
Harpuia #3051129 11/30/20 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Harpuia
I noticed that every time when Casio GP was discussed, people start to argue whether it is a hybrid. While it seems true that Casio has some exaggerated marketing...

You've answered your question already.

But to elaborate...

No one likes corporate entities taking such obvious liberties with the truth and that is the reason behind any backlash. They are perfectly competitive digital pianos within their price range but their marketing is bullsh1t.

Personally I have also bashed them for their creaky cabinets (true but they're not exceptionally bad in that respect) and utterly tasteless badging (also true - I can almost live with the little Bechstein plaque, despite the dishonest vibe - but the 'CASIO' name in yucky yellow transfer using their banal font right in the player's eye-line is just too awful for words).

On the plus side the action is super-quick and I don't object at all to their Berlin Grand (Bechstein) sample (the Hamburg is their age-old plinky-plonky Steinway that sounds a bit toy-like in the mid-range).

For the right person, who is aware of the real basis of the action and can look past the dodgy marketing, the GP is a perfectly worthy digital piano choice, although I notice they've become rather more expensive than they were.


C. Bechstein Model B | Roland RD-1000 |
Re: Why no enough like for Casio GP?
Harpuia #3051134 11/30/20 07:07 AM
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Also note that Casio has the shortest key stroke in the business. smile
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