Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Casio GP-510 vs Kawai NV10 vs Yamaha AvantGrand N3x/N1x

“ then its best to simply avoid using the word hybrid.”

Yes, if we try and compare the Casio GP510, we should also try the DP in a comparable price range (CLP675, LX708...) only how they feel and ear matter. What is inside doesn’t matter.

If I have choosen the N1X, it is not because of the hybrid word but because when I have tried it, I thought « Yes, this is what I want », and other DP seem me inferior (note : I haven’t tried the Kawai NV10).

NV10 action not as real?

The N2 action is basically the GB1K entry level baby grand from Yamaha, or maybe even an older model acoustic as the N2 is so dated now. The NV10 action is from the GX grand (maybe GL) series by Yamaha, but either way the action on the NV10 is superior to any of the yamaha grands, the NV10 is much easier to play advanced classical repertoire due its lighter and more responsive action. You say it doesn't feel like a real grand... Well it actually is a real grand action, so you're wrong.

How can the N2 have a more real action if it also lacks the damper mechanism that the NV10 offers.

I'm not interested in forum battles but... I said (in my opinion, etc.,) the N2 takes less inertia at initial attack than Kawai.

Next time please choose your words like "so your wrong," or that I said "it didn't feel real." You conveniently also missed the part when I said the Kawai felt great.

There's far more intertia overall on the N2, and yes it feels like a real grand... Because it uses a real grand action... A cheap entry level acoustic grand action too!

Is it that the Yamaha N series use Yamaha actions without damper weights, meaning if you weigh/play them Yamahas side by side with their corresponding acoustic cousins with the acoustic sustain pedal depressed continuously to remove the damper weights, it would feel the same?

So another way to phrase it is, Yamaha N series feels like playing on acoustic with sustain pedal continuously depressed?

Inertia doesn’t depend on the price of the action. Inertia is a physical characteristic of mass. Mass (or the lack of it) can be achieved any way, cheap or expensive. But I get it people love to justify their choices through misconceptions.

Funny how people defend their choice!
Yes, I think you got it absolutely right!, CG.

I'd like to think it's the other way round.

.. meaning, yamaha designed it's weight to be similar to with pedal not depressed? Or used a weight somewhere in between?

I don't want to speak about the AG without having significant time at the keyboard, but there are a few components to this:

1. In addition to the well known "escapement letoff," proper sustain pedal regulation includes having the damper mechanism contact the keys on the way down, so if you pay close attention, there are two "bumps" you can feel when you depress the keys - one near the top when the damper lifts, and one near the bottom when escapement triggers. On the NV-10, you can feel this additional bump (and regulate it) when the damper isn't pressed.

2. There's also touchweight. I can't say whether Yamaha modified the AG action weight to feel the same as with pedal up, but it would seem like an odd and counterintuitive process to undertake.

The non-hybrid DPs mostly modelled the weight of damperless keys, except maybe some heavy models like CLP-775/785 that modeled it nearer to dampered keys. For Yamaha N series with the action taken from a acoustic, minus the damper component, would be akin to damperless weight then maybe?