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Re: The cheapest new 6-foot grand piano
Vikendios #3050277 11/27/20 08:55 PM
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If the child is ten years old as another poster said, then unless he is incredibly advanced for his age, he should not make major decisions about a piano purchase except to indicate what he might like. Hire a tech or ask his piano teacher for help. IMO a ten year old should not be telling his parents what size piano he must have.

Re: The cheapest new 6-foot grand piano
Vikendios #3050290 11/27/20 10:02 PM
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My two cents:

Buy the piano. It will be fine. Samick makes a good product. We know at that price it's not going to be a Fazioli, or even a Yamaha, but that doesn't matter right now. It will be more than good enough for the young child even if they're practicing Chopin Etudes. I'm presuming that since budget is such a consideration that the child doesn't have an acoustic piano or has something rather old and in need of replacement.

The Samick should be enough to see the child through the next five years anyway, and then maybe by then, the parents will know better what direction the child will take with their music, and they'll maybe be able to afford a better piano.

Honestly, I would have loved to have had a piano as bad as a Samick SIG61 when I was growing up.... as it happens I had a Yamaha PSR-36 61 key keyboard that had neither touch response nor a sustain pedal, and a straight-strung birdcage until we replaced it with an already clapped out over-strung Challen, which is not as good a piano as a new Samick.

I would advise that you have a piano technician regulate the action and voice it, make sure the action isn't too heavy, make sure the piano isn't too strident or loud, and just generally make sure it's in the best possible condition. Actually you're not going to gain that much by taking the child to try the piano for themselves first since they might not have a good benchmark for comparison, and don't know themselves what they need to develop. Yeah, it would be nice to be able to deliver a nice new Hamburg B, but we don't all live in that tax bracket!

I think it's a wonderful present and a lovely gesture, and thank you for seeing fit to contribute to the child's future!

Re: The cheapest new 6-foot grand piano
Joseph Fleetwood #3050302 11/27/20 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Joseph Fleetwood
My two cents:

Buy the piano. It will be fine. Samick makes a good product. We know at that price it's not going to be a Fazioli, or even a Yamaha, but that doesn't matter right now. It will be more than good enough for the young child even if they're practicing Chopin Etudes. I'm presuming that since budget is such a consideration that the child doesn't have an acoustic piano or has something rather old and in need of replacement.

The Samick should be enough to see the child through the next five years anyway, and then maybe by then, the parents will know better what direction the child will take with their music, and they'll maybe be able to afford a better piano.

Honestly, I would have loved to have had a piano as bad as a Samick SIG61 when I was growing up.... as it happens I had a Yamaha PSR-36 61 key keyboard that had neither touch response nor a sustain pedal, and a straight-strung birdcage until we replaced it with an already clapped out over-strung Challen, which is not as good a piano as a new Samick.

I would advise that you have a piano technician regulate the action and voice it, make sure the action isn't too heavy, make sure the piano isn't too strident or loud, and just generally make sure it's in the best possible condition. Actually you're not going to gain that much by taking the child to try the piano for themselves first since they might not have a good benchmark for comparison, and don't know themselves what they need to develop. Yeah, it would be nice to be able to deliver a nice new Hamburg B, but we don't all live in that tax bracket!

I think it's a wonderful present and a lovely gesture, and thank you for seeing fit to contribute to the child's future!

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Re: The cheapest new 6-foot grand piano
Vikendios #3050306 11/27/20 11:35 PM
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I can't speak to their branded Samicks, but Thomann has a good reputation. They come up here periodically re. digitals and benches.

They're getting good reviews for their OEM guitars. I missed out on a cool second-hand guitar recently, and am so intrigued that I'm considering buying a new one and having it shipped from Germany. Normally I'd be in the "don't buy it if you haven't tried it" school, but it's less than $400, including shipping. From what I read, they come set up pretty well, but it's no matter because I would likely tweak it to my liking anyway. I've never had a Chinese built guitar, but I'm intrigued.


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Re: The cheapest new 6-foot grand piano
Vikendios #3050315 11/28/20 12:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Vikendios
I do not know, but my guess is that it is made in Indonesia, unless Samick also has a production line for this model in Korea. Of course the subject piano is not sold under the Samick name but under "Roth & Junius". This brand is nowadays actually owned by Thomann and used as a house brand for "value" instruments of all kind.

They clearly explain this here:

Roth & Junius

So the reputation of Thomann, by far the largest and most respected on-line music store in Europe, is on the line. My guess the piano would be very well prepped.
So I'm assuming it is one of these instruments.....per the model number in the photos.

https://www.thomann.de/gb/roth_junius_rjgp_186_e_p_grand_piano.htm#bewertung


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Re: The cheapest new 6-foot grand piano
pianoloverus #3050375 11/28/20 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
If the child is ten years old as another poster said, then unless he is incredibly advanced for his age, he should not make major decisions about a piano purchase except to indicate what he might like. Hire a tech or ask his piano teacher for help. IMO a ten year old should not be telling his parents what size piano he must have.

I will try to show you that some people operate in a totally different mental environment from yours, and that is fine, it takes all kind to make a world, live and let live.

In life I always make my own decisions, and will never hire anyone, be it a tech, a piano teacher or a "financial advisor" to help make them for me. I do my own research, including on PW, and it has served me well.

My friend, the Dad, is actually quite wealthy. Mummy, long divorced, is not involved. He is a scientist by training and owns a bio lab. Unfortunately he has zero interest in the arts except litterature. I met him through our common passion for competitive sailing (he is much younger than I am). His position is that his kid's piano playing is at best a hobby, and not to be overly encouraged because it distracts from "serious" studies, and the piano a toy.

I am the one telling him that there is value in a musical education, not as a profession (he would be very suspicious), but in a platonic sense. So he is sending the kid once a week to the free (Paris is run by socialists) neighbourhood conservatory, but he has no personal teacher.

And for him $ 7250 on a new toy for a ten-year old is ridiculous. The kid being bright, conscientious and happy is doing extremely well at school, and I got the new piano approved as a reward.



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Re: The cheapest new 6-foot grand piano
Vikendios #3050382 11/28/20 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Vikendios
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
If the child is ten years old as another poster said, then unless he is incredibly advanced for his age, he should not make major decisions about a piano purchase except to indicate what he might like. Hire a tech or ask his piano teacher for help. IMO a ten year old should not be telling his parents what size piano he must have.

I will try to show you that some people operate in a totally different mental environment from yours, and that is fine, it takes all kind to make a world, live and let live.

In life I always make my own decisions, and will never hire anyone, be it a tech, a piano teacher or a "financial advisor" to help make them for me. I do my own research, including on PW, and it has served me well.

My friend, the Dad, is actually quite wealthy. Mummy, long divorced, is not involved. He is a scientist by training and owns a bio lab. Unfortunately he has zero interest in the arts except litterature. I met him through our common passion for competitive sailing (he is much younger than I am). His position is that his kid's piano playing is at best a hobby, and not to be overly encouraged because it distracts from "serious" studies, and the piano a toy.

I am the one telling him that there is value in a musical education, not as a profession (he would be very suspicious), but in a platonic sense. So he is sending the kid once a week to the free (Paris is run by socialists) neighbourhood conservatory, but he has no personal teacher.

And for him $ 7250 on a new toy for a ten-year old is ridiculous. The kid being bright, conscientious and happy is doing extremely well at school, and I got the new piano approved as a reward.
You’re a good friend and that child is lucky to have someone support his music.


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Bach/Busoni Chaconne in D minor BWV 1004
Preludio: Bach/Rachmaninoff E Major Sonata for Violin
Chopin: G Minor Ballade


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Re: The cheapest new 6-foot grand piano
Retsacnal #3050408 11/28/20 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Retsacnal
I can't speak to their branded Samicks, but Thomann has a good reputation. They come up here periodically re. digitals and benches.

They're getting good reviews for their OEM guitars. I missed out on a cool second-hand guitar recently, and am so intrigued that I'm considering buying a new one and having it shipped from Germany. Normally I'd be in the "don't buy it if you haven't tried it" school, but it's less than $400, including shipping. From what I read, they come set up pretty well, but it's no matter because I would likely tweak it to my liking anyway. I've never had a Chinese built guitar, but I'm intrigued.

Hi. Is this from their Harley Benton house brand? I once bought a Thomann house brand flamenco guitar type 1F that I kept at home for a virtuoso friend's visit so he would not ruin my Granada luthier guitar, which he loved, with his tapping. It cost less than $150. He liked it so much that he ordered one for his studio.



Steinway "A". Roland LX 706. Viscount Sonus 45 hybrid organ with 165 real pipes. Harpsichord by Marc Fontaine.
Re: The cheapest new 6-foot grand piano
Vikendios #3050428 11/28/20 10:14 AM
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Vikendios- you are a generous friend and I admire your mentoring his child in music and piano. I don’t think too many people are in the situation of buying a 6’ piano blind for a 10 year old.

Personally I’d do the piano picture in an envelope and wait until the child can try it but if there’s a warranty and a 30 day no questions asked return policy is relatively safe.

Best Wishes on your idea of being an especially generous Santa Claus or Father Christmas.


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Re: The cheapest new 6-foot grand piano
Vikendios #3050438 11/28/20 10:42 AM
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WARNING!!!!!

The SMP in PianoBuyer is for use in the US and Canada, NOT Europe.

The SMP prices and the discounts suggested for them, do not reflect accurate figures for pianos sold outside North America,

Using any aspect of those price will lead to significantly inaccurate expectations/results.


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My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.
Re: The cheapest new 6-foot grand piano
Vikendios #3050723 11/29/20 01:22 AM
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Here's a link to the piano in question:

https://www.thomannmusic.com/roth_junius_rjgp_186_e_p_grand_piano.htm

Thomann lists the price in dollars and w/o VAT as 8,039. That's 50% of SMP of the equivalent Samick.

Even the 30% off SMP discount is still 40% higher than the European price.

So, we're offered simplistic rationales about why European pianos cost more in the US (they have to be shipped, import duties, currency fluctuation, etc), but here's a piano that faces those same considerations in both Europe and the US, and yet it's significantly more expensive in the US.


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Re: The cheapest new 6-foot grand piano
Vikendios #3050951 11/29/20 04:13 PM
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I have friends who bought a Korean built 6’ Samick piano 32 years ago. I used to care for it when I was an active tuner. I also installed a player system at their request not long after they got it. I recently visited them and that piano still plays and sounds wonderful.

I think you would be fine with the Samick you’re considering.


-Bill L. - former tuner-technician
Re: The cheapest new 6-foot grand piano
Vikendios #3051214 11/30/20 11:49 AM
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Vikendios,

From your messages it sounds like your only worry is the soundboard. Let me add my $0.02 to the discussion. Actually 4 cents:

1) Forget your worries about the soundboard. It will be just fine: https://www.pianobuyer.com/article/the-benefits-of-laminated-soundboards/

2) Action: some people have already warned you twice about the possibility of the action being too heavy, and you have
ignored them. Don't! DON'T! A too heavy action made me unmotivated when I was kid. I quit my piano lessons after just a few months, despite me enjoying them, because I was convinced I had too weak hands to play the piano. I held that belief until until I got in my 40s (!!!) and I "accidentally" started playing again. Granted, those days heavy actions were more common than now, but do not overlook this. Call Thomann and ask them about this piano, making sure the action is not too heavy for a kid.

3) Also, you said the kind has some pro-bono lessons with conservatory teachers. Call them and ask them how do they think would be best. I find teachers usually knowing very little about the technicalities of the piano, but they DO understand very well the WEIGHT of the action, and they can advice you if this kid needs a normal, heavy or light action. Moreover, call your piano technician (or whoever you plan to hire to tune and maintain the instrument) and ask them what they think. Having a technician who thinks the instrument is bad is very bad (ask me how I know it).

4) Is an upright out of question? At that price, you could get a heck of an upright, whereas as a grand it could be only so-so. I understand the appeal of a grand, and that is indeed the choice myself made too, but I made the conscious choice, and I want to make sure you make best choice for the kid. Perhaps you already know this very well, but hearing another person describing the pros and cons of each option will help, IMHO: watch https://www.facebook.com/schmittmus...9683/238421867596281/?type=2&theater which is very informative.


In conclusion, thanks for doing this for this kid. We all know this won't be a Fazioli, but it won't be a broken spinet either..... so making sure it will be the best it could be (within its limits) to help this young person's musical journey!

Re: The cheapest new 6-foot grand piano
Del Vento #3051241 11/30/20 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Del Vento
4) Is an upright out of question? At that price, you could get a heck of an upright, whereas as a grand it could be only so-so. I understand the appeal of a grand, and that is indeed the choice myself made too, but I made the conscious choice, and I want to make sure you make best choice for the kid. Perhaps you already know this very well, but hearing another person describing the pros and cons of each option will help, IMHO: watch https://www.facebook.com/schmittmus...9683/238421867596281/?type=2&theater which is very informative.

In conclusion, thanks for doing this for this kid. We all know this won't be a Fazioli, but it won't be a broken spinet either..... so making sure it will be the best it could be (within its limits) to help this young person's musical journey!

I agree on both points above. Please do let us know the outcome!


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Re: The cheapest new 6-foot grand piano
Gretel #3051249 11/30/20 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Gretel
Hahaha!
well said
Ian


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Re: The cheapest new 6-foot grand piano
Vikendios #3051301 11/30/20 02:25 PM
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I really don't get the premise of the thread.

The only question in the OP is, "should this kid get his Christmas present?" Apparently papa has been convinced that he should.

If the decision criteria are that it must be Thomann's cheapest grand over 6 feet, and money is no object, then it's a programmed decision: papa should pull up the page, put the piano into his shopping cart and navigate to the checkout page.


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Re: The cheapest new 6-foot grand piano
Vikendios #3051560 12/01/20 08:17 AM
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I'm intrigued by how it works with Thomann piano deliveries.

I regard them as a decent online store and have used them a few times for bits and pieces without complaint but my image of purchasing an acoustic from Thomann is having it turn up on a kerbside pallette, wrapped in plastic leaving me to get it installed in the house and arranging the tuning etc.

Presumably it isn't actually that bad, what do they provide service wise?

Re: The cheapest new 6-foot grand piano
Vikendios #3051577 12/01/20 09:18 AM
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I would like to say only one thing. Under $ 10,000 there are only two pianos worth buying. kawai kg2 (3) or yamaha g2 the problem is playing more than one and deciding which one sounds better. a good used, well placed is easy to find. In my opinion there is no baby piano that can compete from the point of view of the sound of the mechanics. plus they are particularly popular models, you can find many. the point is to try the piano. there is no way that a pianist should choose a piano without trying it. Each piano is different even in the same models.

Re: The cheapest new 6-foot grand piano
Vikendios #3051647 12/01/20 12:44 PM
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These are all good hints and tips, but the OP has already decided that he needs a small and extremely inexpensive grand, and that he needs it now and cannot wait to get it tested in a store. And that the risk is low because the money is negligible and the 30 day return period allows to try several pianos until he finds a good one. Fairly unique combination of constraints, but perfectly reasonable if you take these constraints as given. Not sure who would, though.


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