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Inspired by 'long sustain' Singing Piano
#3050040 11/27/20 08:18 AM
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I have a middle of the line piano (Kawai RX-3) that sometimes sings with the whole piano resonating. To me, that is what a piano should always do. Note that this is quite different from 'long sustain'.

Boesendorfer pianos are said to have thin rims to allow the case to resonate like a violin. But I have never played one of these expensive pianos that resonates like my cheapo does, or at least sometimes does. I don't know what makes it sing and resonate one day and a week later it does not.

So, do you have such a singing piano?
Or at least sometimes sings?

What do you do to make it always sing?
Or at least sing more often?


I am 'doremi' because I play scales smile
My teacher is 'domisol' because he plays chords shocked
Re: Inspired by 'long sustain' Singing Piano
doremi #3050057 11/27/20 09:35 AM
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Based on a recent tuning or humidity changes a piano can sound better on one day vs. another day. Maybe this is what you mean. If not, I have no idea.

The Bosie rim is not thinner than other pianos but it's constructed differently. It's not made of many thin layers of wood glued together. This is a different but not necessarily better way of building the rim.

Re: Inspired by 'long sustain' Singing Piano
doremi #3050062 11/27/20 09:49 AM
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In my view, our piano(s) sings to us in many ways, even if not exactly the same all day every day. Subtle changes can and do occur over time, and at different times of the day or week, or month or year.

I've read stories here on PW where someone had their piano tuned after a while, and they were unhappy with the way it "sang" after it was tuned. Chances are they were used to/adapted to the singing voice of the piano while it was slightly out of tune, and when it was tuned, the voice sounded different, because it was different; it was actually in tune. And, they didn't like what they were hearing, compared to the way it was before it was tuned.

On the other hand, that is perhaps another advantage, or disadvantage, depending on how you look/listen at it, from a digital piano, whose voice is more or less fixed and is the same constantly. The voice/singing tone of an acoustic piano kind of ebbs and flows to a certain extent, based on the tuning changes that occur, as well as other changes, like humidity and temperature.

But the singing tone, yes, that is what we like, or perhaps dislike at times, about our pianos.

Sometimes when I'm playing my pianos, on the last notes of what I'm playing I will depress the sustain pedal and keep it depressed and just soak in the singing sounds that I hear, like soaking in the sunshine on a beautiful day.

The singing sound of a piano is what we want to hear each day
As we depress the keys in certain intervals and try our best to play
The sound is lovely to our ears, and feeds our hungry soul
For that emotional feeling of satisfaction that never seems to grow old

Nevertheless, that voice can change, whether subtle or severe
And sometimes it can get to the point where it's hurtful to our ear
But that is just one of the things we endure in our quest for a sound so pure
And we grow to love that singing tone of our piano(s), that is for sure smile

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: Inspired by 'long sustain' Singing Piano
doremi #3050072 11/27/20 10:21 AM
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I think I should elaborate a little. In my OP, I did not mean 'long sustain' sufficient to play cantabile, that's what the other thread was all about.

Even when my piano does not resonate (whole instrument vibrates), it still has that 'long sustain' sufficient to play cantabile. But when the piano does sing and resonate, it becomes a whole different experience. As I hinted at in the OP, if the piano always does that, then that's the holy grail, IMNSHO.


I am 'doremi' because I play scales smile
My teacher is 'domisol' because he plays chords shocked
Re: Inspired by 'long sustain' Singing Piano
doremi #3050074 11/27/20 10:24 AM
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Pianoloverus and Rick are right which is expected considering their piano experience. This is my own opinion so no guarantee it’s right. The Estonia line is noted for its singing tone. What that means to me is when you hold a note the sound towards the end of the tone varies very slightly has a wah wah effect similar to a vocalist. That gives the impression of singing. Construction, design, voicing and tuning of Estonia’s, give this singing effect. Other pianos also have this capability. My C3, great mid priced instrument like your Kawai RX, also can have a singing tone. Not as much as the Estonia but again the Estonia is specifically designed for that effect. Humidity level, tuning frequency, and voicing do effect any piano’s singing capacity. Also, tell your piano tech that you specifically love the singing aspect and your Kawai RX should be more able to sing to you more frequently. And you do have a wonderful piano as many Forum members can attest.


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
Casio Privia PX-330
My piano’s voice is beautiful!
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Re: Inspired by 'long sustain' Singing Piano
j&j #3050082 11/27/20 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by j&j
Pianoloverus and Rick are right which is expected considering their piano experience. This is my own opinion so no guarantee it’s right. The Estonia line is noted for its singing tone. What that means to me is when you hold a note the sound towards the end of the tone varies very slightly has a wah wah effect similar to a vocalist. That gives the impression of singing. Construction, design, voicing and tuning of Estonia’s, give this singing effect. Other pianos also have this capability. My C3, great mid priced instrument like your Kawai RX, also can have a singing tone. Not as much as the Estonia but again the Estonia is specifically designed for that effect. Humidity level, tuning frequency, and voicing do effect any piano’s singing capacity. Also, tell your piano tech that you specifically love the singing aspect and your Kawai RX should be more able to sing to you more frequently. And you do have a wonderful piano as many Forum members can attest.



If a note has a wah wah effect it means it's out of tune. Period.

Paul

Re: Inspired by 'long sustain' Singing Piano
doremi #3050091 11/27/20 11:09 AM
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You would have to detune an acoustic piano a lot for wah wah smile

Sometimes, the holy grail appears after tuning (piano tuner smiling and surprised himself at the test play), sometimes not. Sometimes the holy grail appears at the 6 month humidity cycle, sometimes not. As I said, I don't know how to let the holy grail stay, hence the OP.


I am 'doremi' because I play scales smile
My teacher is 'domisol' because he plays chords shocked
Re: Inspired by 'long sustain' Singing Piano
doremi #3050107 11/27/20 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by doremi
You would have to detune an acoustic piano a lot for wah wah smile

Sometimes, the holy grail appears after tuning (piano tuner smiling and surprised himself at the test play), sometimes not. Sometimes the holy grail appears at the 6 month humidity cycle, sometimes not. As I said, I don't know how to let the holy grail stay, hence the OP.

Whenever I tune my pianos, temperament is a must
Equal temperament is what I use, and it is what I trust
Next is the unisons, bichord and trichord too
The unichords are fairly easy, cause there's only one to do

I like a pure unison, with no beating or wah wah
And I like to sing along too, with do re mi fa sol la
Ending with te do, if with the scale I follow through
Unless I'm messing around with something new

It can take a while, and be tiring to the ear
But when the tuning is done, it's what I want to hear
I'll play something fast, some boogie-woogie melody
That makes me smile, and tests the tuning stability

Next, I'll check the unisons again
To see if they slipped from where they began
I'll play some more, both soft and loud
To see my tuning has made me proud

A singing tone? Why yes indeed
It's not just an option, but something we need
But as in life, subjectivity prevails
As to whether the piano sings, or whether it just wails

Sorry, I couldn't resist. smile

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: Inspired by 'long sustain' Singing Piano
doremi #3050112 11/27/20 12:08 PM
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I didn’t explain it right. The notes has a bit of modulation for the level of sound not tone. I believe Hugh Sung explained it much better in a video of what he looks for in a concert instrument. I can hear it in a freshly tuned piano.


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
Casio Privia PX-330
My piano’s voice is beautiful!
[Linked Image]
Re: Inspired by 'long sustain' Singing Piano
doremi #3050142 11/27/20 01:35 PM
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Thanks for the responses, but they are all in the realm of 'long sustain' of the other thread.

The 'holy grail' realm here is different. The keys vibrate significantly stronger when the holy grail is present than when it is absent. The case vibrate significantly stronger when the holy grail is present (e.g. playing with the left hand and touching the top of the case with the right hand) than when it is absent. Most importantly, the sound changes to that of a resonating cello (only example I know well) when the holy grail is present rather than mere soundboard type of amplification when the holy grail is absent.


I am 'doremi' because I play scales smile
My teacher is 'domisol' because he plays chords shocked
Re: Inspired by 'long sustain' Singing Piano
doremi #3050153 11/27/20 02:05 PM
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Sounds to me like your piano has personality.

Try keeping a daily log of tuning, weather, RH, top up/top down, music played, singing/non-singing, your mood at the time...and any other factor you can think of. Over time you may find an answer.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: Inspired by 'long sustain' Singing Piano
doremi #3050154 11/27/20 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by doremi
Thanks for the responses, but they are all in the realm of 'long sustain' of the other thread.

The 'holy grail' realm here is different. The keys vibrate significantly stronger when the holy grail is present than when it is absent. The case vibrate significantly stronger when the holy grail is present (e.g. playing with the left hand and touching the top of the case with the right hand) than when it is absent. Most importantly, the sound changes to that of a resonating cello (only example I know well) when the holy grail is present rather than mere soundboard type of amplification when the holy grail is absent.

Ask the moderators to remove my post, because surely they are amiss
I thought I was making a contribution, but I guess I don't understand all this
I only understand my thoughts, but try to understand others
And, I certainly do not wish to ruffle any feathers

But, alas, I suppose it is true
Our words on the internet may well misconstrue
When we interpret what others say
Not knowing if our thoughts are conjoined in any way

Nevertheless, we move on and press forward
Hoping our words were not too wayward
So, I'll step aside from this intellectual ride
For I am not sure if I should run, or just hide

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: Inspired by 'long sustain' Singing Piano
doremi #3050180 11/27/20 03:03 PM
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I have always said I chose my piano because it sang , which is true.

Re: Inspired by 'long sustain' Singing Piano
doremi #3050205 11/27/20 04:42 PM
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Well, no need for drama. As I hinted at in the other thread, if you can't make Schumann's Traeumerei sound cantabile on a halfway decent modern day piano, then it is YOU who can't play cantabile, don't blame the piano. Note that beauty is in the ear of the beholder, and if you like the sound, then the extra $$$ may be well spent. Does not change the fact that this is a different issue.

And no, the piano does not become louder if the holy grail is there.

And no, the piano does not become a Yamaha if the holy grail is there. Also a question that popped up when I brought this up in the past. It is still the Kawai sound, only that it emanates from the entire piano.

I find myself saying a lot what this issue is NOT about LOL

PWG has a point.

Actual experiences welcome, I can't be alone, my piano tuner did not swoon.


I am 'doremi' because I play scales smile
My teacher is 'domisol' because he plays chords shocked
Re: Inspired by 'long sustain' Singing Piano
Rickster #3050297 11/27/20 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Rickster
Originally Posted by doremi
Thanks for the responses, but they are all in the realm of 'long sustain' of the other thread.

The 'holy grail' realm here is different. The keys vibrate significantly stronger when the holy grail is present than when it is absent. The case vibrate significantly stronger when the holy grail is present (e.g. playing with the left hand and touching the top of the case with the right hand) than when it is absent. Most importantly, the sound changes to that of a resonating cello (only example I know well) when the holy grail is present rather than mere soundboard type of amplification when the holy grail is absent.

Ask the moderators to remove my post, because surely they are amiss
I thought I was making a contribution, but I guess I don't understand all this
I only understand my thoughts, but try to understand others
And, I certainly do not wish to ruffle any feathers

But, alas, I suppose it is true
Our words on the internet may well misconstrue
When we interpret what others say
Not knowing if our thoughts are conjoined in any way

Nevertheless, we move on and press forward
Hoping our words were not too wayward
So, I'll step aside from this intellectual ride
For I am not sure if I should run, or just hide

Rick
I hope the moderators do not remove your poetry Rick ! It is most odd that when we talk at all about a piano's tone or our pianos tone we enter into the personal thoughts , feelings,
subjectivity of different posters. It is hurtfull if someone is called a liar , but I never saw that at all here.
To the OP I would just like to say that Yamaha C series instruments can sing and resonate just as well as a Kawai RX.

The Holy Grail I do not think I can help with .I thought they lost it .(I mean the knights of the round table )

Re: Inspired by 'long sustain' Singing Piano
Lady Bird #3050310 11/27/20 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Originally Posted by Rickster
Originally Posted by doremi
Thanks for the responses, but they are all in the realm of 'long sustain' of the other thread.

The 'holy grail' realm here is different. The keys vibrate significantly stronger when the holy grail is present than when it is absent. The case vibrate significantly stronger when the holy grail is present (e.g. playing with the left hand and touching the top of the case with the right hand) than when it is absent. Most importantly, the sound changes to that of a resonating cello (only example I know well) when the holy grail is present rather than mere soundboard type of amplification when the holy grail is absent.

Ask the moderators to remove my post, because surely they are amiss
I thought I was making a contribution, but I guess I don't understand all this
I only understand my thoughts, but try to understand others
And, I certainly do not wish to ruffle any feathers

But, alas, I suppose it is true
Our words on the internet may well misconstrue
When we interpret what others say
Not knowing if our thoughts are conjoined in any way

Nevertheless, we move on and press forward
Hoping our words were not too wayward
So, I'll step aside from this intellectual ride
For I am not sure if I should run, or just hide

Rick
I hope the moderators do not remove your poetry Rick ! It is most odd that when we talk at all about a piano's tone or our pianos tone we enter into the personal thoughts , feelings,
subjectivity of different posters. It is hurtfull if someone is called a liar , but I never saw that at all here.
To the OP I would just like to say that Yamaha C series instruments can sing and resonate just as well as a Kawai RX.

The Holy Grail I do not think I can help with .I thought they lost it .(I mean the knights of the round table )

Thanks, Lady Bird, for your kind words and thoughts
I said some things in this thread that really meant naught
Well, I know I talked about stepping aside
But I think it’s time I swallowed my pride

And, I apologize to the OP, doremi too
Because it is simply the right thing to do
You see, it’s like this, and I’ll try to explain
And I hope you don’t think I’m too much of a pain

When you mentioned the comments here belong elsewhere
I kind of felt rejected, in that moment, if I should dare
Yes, I know, it’s a childish way
And I try to be mature in the things I say

Especially since I’m older, and my hair is snow white
But that doesn’t mean I'm always right
Yes, I suppose I can have skin that's too thin
And I tell myself not to do it again

What am I thinking, and what do I mean?
Well, that I shouldn't overreact or create a scene.
So, I suppose enough has been said
I just need to be more careful writing what’s in my head

I've learned that pianos can be temperamental
Especially when you try to play an instrumental
By all means, let's proceed on, for sure
And hope that beautiful singing tone in your piano will endure smile

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: Inspired by 'long sustain' Singing Piano
doremi #3050331 11/28/20 02:10 AM
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Quote
The Holy Grail I do not think I can help with.
Yeah, you have not gone beyond the 'long sustain' realm yet.

Quote
I apologize to the OP, doremi too
I do not know what wrong you did to me.


I am 'doremi' because I play scales smile
My teacher is 'domisol' because he plays chords shocked
Re: Inspired by 'long sustain' Singing Piano
doremi #3050332 11/28/20 02:19 AM
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Originally Posted by doremi
Quote
The Holy Grail I do not think I can help with.
Yeah, you have not gone beyond the 'long sustain' realm yet.

Quote
I apologize to the OP, doremi too
I do not know what wrong you did to me.
Well I would not describe it as you do , thats all doremi .I am glad that you have a lovely piano .Kawai RX pianos are great !

Re: Inspired by 'long sustain' Singing Piano
Lady Bird #3050679 11/28/20 10:11 PM
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Quote
I would not describe it as you do
I need different words for different things, if you only understood ...
================================================
And yes, I did think of recording, but I would need a whole array of microphones all around my piano, and you need a playback system shaped like my piano ...
================================================
The 2 recent threads on CAD for piano also inspired me, sort of. Unfortunately, they turn out to be mostly mechanical, and only teeny weeny acoustical. Well, it will be a while before they can CAD a Stradivarius. And allegedly, not all his creations turn out great either. But perhaps we can hope that one day we can acoustically CAD a piano and other musical instruments ...


I am 'doremi' because I play scales smile
My teacher is 'domisol' because he plays chords shocked
Re: Inspired by 'long sustain' Singing Piano
doremi #3050720 11/29/20 01:11 AM
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I once tried a U3 Yamaha in a dealer. That day in those moments I felt that I had found the Holy Grail. The sound from that piano seemed to be emitting a light right through me from the sound of that piano.
I had played many U3's before and never felt that.
Afterwards I realised that it was the end of my first winter in Canada .We had ,had months of cold, darkness and quite an amount of snow .It had been a long time since I had experienced a winter like that. (perhaps I was 10 years old )

So this experience of light flooding out of a piano I realised was perhaps because it was the begging of spring , and it had been a long time since we truly had a sunny bright day. My mood was right up there , flying with angels.......brought back to reality by the salesperson........


Not that inspiration is not real .We have all experienced moments of total delight in the sound and music we
can make on our pianos. But I am sure the Holy Grail is experienced when we are playing a particular piece we have worked on ,and it now bears its fruit.
Yes we can hear a cello in the bass and singing in the tenor and treble. Where would we be if we never had such moments?

Last edited by Lady Bird; 11/29/20 01:14 AM. Reason: spelling
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