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Re: New M1 Macbook and VST
Gombessa #3048926 11/24/20 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
These new Macs are causing enough of a wave that if I were a VST maker, I'd recompile and re-release my old VST+Player as an M1 universal binary just because I know a horde of new buyers will be entering the market and will be looking for native apps. It's kind of a marketing no-brainer.

It would be ridiculous not to.

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Re: New M1 Macbook and VST
kiwibd #3048943 11/24/20 11:04 AM
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Some clarity, APPLE DOES NOT FABRICATE their own chips. TSMC is the Fab. Just as Apple does not make iphones, Foxconn makes iphones

There ARE performance hits.

The translation layer incurs somewhere between 10-30% reduction vs native.

This is not uniform and can not be easily compared. But overall, for developers, it's pretty straightforward.

Amd's Zen3 cores on the current 7nm gen are on par with the M1, and once they transition to 5nm, they should be ahead slightly and of course retain their better legacy instruction performance.

This move builds Apple's walled garden walls Higher, is it good for consumers, neutral.

Last edited by jeffcat; 11/24/20 11:07 AM.
Re: New M1 Macbook and VST
jeffcat #3048951 11/24/20 11:23 AM
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AMD is on par on multicore at a much higher power consumption. By the time they move to 5mn the higher performance Apple SOCs will be out, so I wouldn't bet on them being ahead on performance, let alone efficiency. By then it's also likely that most software will run native on Apple Silicon. And in around 2 years Apple is espected to be moving to 3nm, and will be again quite a bit ahead of everyone for a while. As Anandtech said, at the rate Apple is moving, competitors may never be able to catch up....
Now progress by AMD is great for Windows and I hope they can deliver also on efficiency, not just performance, otherwise the gap between Macs and PCs will be pretty huge in terms of battery life for laptops, especially once the 100wh macbook 16in is updated.


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Re: New M1 Macbook and VST
jeffcat #3048957 11/24/20 11:39 AM
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This is what I was thinking ...
Originally Posted by jeffcat
There ARE performance hits.
The translation layer incurs somewhere between 10-30% reduction vs native.
The earlier comparison was Intel code on Intel iron vs. Intel code on M1 iron with the translation layer. This says that the M1 is faster than some unspecified Intel CPU.

It fails to answer the question: How fast would things run if it were M1 code on M1 iron (no translation layer).

Jeffcat offers an estimate. It's not clear where that came from.

Re: New M1 Macbook and VST
kiwibd #3048976 11/24/20 12:18 PM
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Im a bit out of touch with things but it all seems rather moot when most java and c# apps are not compiled to run directly on the hardware. Presumably audio, video, gaming or real time apps which demand performance are not written in these languages?

Re: New M1 Macbook and VST
spanishbuddha #3048982 11/24/20 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by spanishbuddha
Im a bit out of touch with things but it all seems rather moot when most java and c# apps are not compiled to run directly on the hardware. Presumably audio, video, gaming or real time apps which demand performance are not written in these languages?

Generalisations are tricky things, but broadly: demanding apps are written in C or other languages that are "close" to the hardware. But it's worth also highlighting that in something like Java and C# the runtime will do native compilation of their code, it's just done as the programme runs rather than ahead of time. To do so, however, the runtime itself needs to be able to run (and be optimised for) the hardware.

Re: New M1 Macbook and VST
kiwibd #3049003 11/24/20 01:21 PM
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I guess I only care about this as it applies to virtual instruments. Does anyone have one running on an M1 Mac?

Re: New M1 Macbook and VST
jeffcat #3049010 11/24/20 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by jeffcat
Some clarity, APPLE DOES NOT FABRICATE their own chips. TSMC is the Fab. Just as Apple does not make iphones, Foxconn makes iphones

There ARE performance hits.

The translation layer incurs somewhere between 10-30% reduction vs native.

This is not uniform and can not be easily compared. But overall, for developers, it's pretty straightforward.

Amd's Zen3 cores on the current 7nm gen are on par with the M1, and once they transition to 5nm, they should be ahead slightly and of course retain their better legacy instruction performance.

This move builds Apple's walled garden walls Higher, is it good for consumers, neutral.

Apple will design the chips, that is the advantage of working closely with TSMC.

More info here:

https://venturebeat.com/2020/11/13/...r-mac-chip-delays-but-tsmc-wont-be-next/

The nicest gardens have walls. The Windows approach encourages the growth of a lot of mutant flowers, hardware that does not integrate well with Windows machines. I choose to live in a nicer garden and don’t care if I have to pay a little more to live there.

Last edited by LarryK; 11/24/20 01:44 PM.
Re: New M1 Macbook and VST
kiwibd #3049071 11/24/20 04:32 PM
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This M1 x x86 performance thing reminds me of a story literally decades ago: we used a 486 class (does someone remember it? smile ) in our product. At that time there were several second sources of it. We were using one made by TI. Whereas Intel's was a power glutton (for the time) and worked pretty hot, requiring heat sink with a fan, TI's barely needed a heat sink. It is a pitty competitors could not keep up with Intel and eventually only AMD was left in this race. Intel won (in a sense) mostly by brute force to this days. Lately though, it seems to be loosing it knack. This new Apple processor, if reports are true and not a lot of marketing gibberish, is refreshing (almost literally smile )

It is a pity IBM chose Intel's 8088 for its first PC. Had them chosen Motorola's 68000 (that was in every aspect a superior architecture and already, at the time, had some elements of a 32 bits processor, along with other features that took intel years to introduce), maybe we would not have this clumsy jurry rigged power hungry architecture that stood so long because of the software echosystem built around it.


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Re: New M1 Macbook and VST
kiwibd #3049085 11/24/20 04:54 PM
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can someone update me on this? It's like all of sudden we need the M1 to run a freaking VST??

Re: New M1 Macbook and VST
kiwibd #3049093 11/24/20 05:07 PM
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Remember the Korg M1? Just sayin’; of all the possible letter/number combinations why did Apple have to pick this one? Now I can’t think M1 without thinking Korg!

There’s Z1, N8, P7..........why specifically M1? Did they really not know about Korg’s iconic synth?

Re: New M1 Macbook and VST
pold #3049189 11/24/20 11:15 PM
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You don't.
Originally Posted by pold
can someone update me on this? It's like all of sudden we need the M1 to run a freaking VST??

Re: New M1 Macbook and VST
kiwibd #3049226 11/25/20 04:12 AM
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Has anyone been able to try a M1 with 8GB of ram with Garritan?

The new M1 macs are supposed to handle ram much better and Garritan is really ram-heavy. Would be interesting to know if 8GB might be enough or if you need to go for 16bg.

https://sixcolors.com/offsite/2020/11/with-m1-macs-memory-isnt-what-it-used-to-be/

Re: New M1 Macbook and VST
kiwibd #3049228 11/25/20 04:24 AM
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I'm almost 99% decided to go purchase the entry-level Air today, it just became available at our local distributor. If that happens (I'm currently backing up my MacBook 12" to reinstall and give it to my wife but it will take many hours), I will try Garritan CFX and will get you posted.

P.S. Just checked again and it's sold out already frown

Last edited by CyberGene; 11/25/20 04:25 AM.

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Re: New M1 Macbook and VST
kiwibd #3049232 11/25/20 04:36 AM
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P.P.S. A gold one appeared on the website and I grabbed it laugh Not a huge fan of the gold color but not bad either. Will try to get it myself later today, or wait for it to be delivered tomorrow.


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Re: New M1 Macbook and VST
CyberGene #3049235 11/25/20 04:45 AM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
I'm almost 99% decided to go purchase the entry-level Air today, it just became available at our local distributor. If that happens (I'm currently backing up my MacBook 12" to reinstall and give it to my wife but it will take many hours), I will try Garritan CFX and will get you posted.

P.S. Just checked again and it's sold out already frown

The Airs are great computers. I wrote one of my first iPhone apps on an Air. Apple gives you so many choices, at many different price levels. You could also buy a Mini to get started with the M1 chip. I use a Mini for all of my streaming and it works really well.

Yesterday, I received a 12.9” iPad Pro for note taking at work. Notability is a good note taking product but sadly it does not seem to import the PDFs from my Sony Digital Paper. I love the Apple Pencil. A lot of my thought processes cannot be shoe horned into a keyboard. When paired with the Magic keyboard, the iPads are credible computers.

Last edited by LarryK; 11/25/20 04:46 AM.
Re: New M1 Macbook and VST
CyberGene #3049236 11/25/20 04:50 AM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
P.P.S. A gold one appeared on the website and I grabbed it laugh Not a huge fan of the gold color but not bad either. Will try to get it myself later today, or wait for it to be delivered tomorrow.

Nice!

I have my eye on a 16GB Air as a Christmas present to myself - the lead time here in Japan appears quite long, however...


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Re: New M1 Macbook and VST
kiwibd #3049238 11/25/20 04:59 AM
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^ James, I was wondering whether I should go for the "16GB - 512GB" version but I'm not sure I need it. I have my company MacBook Pro which is maxed out with everything. I have a very old Mini that runs Garritan CFX, so the Air will be mainly for surfing and occasional GarageBand recording from my hardware synths, so I guess 8GB and 256GB should serve me well, will see... But if it's going to be your main computer, 8GB won't be enough IMO, so yeah, 16GB is the better option.

Last edited by CyberGene; 11/25/20 05:01 AM.

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Re: New M1 Macbook and VST
kiwibd #3049241 11/25/20 05:30 AM
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Luckily I can't afford one now, so I'll have to wait for the 14" model. 😀

Re: New M1 Macbook and VST
kiwibd #3049248 11/25/20 06:04 AM
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Lot's of excitement for a processor. The fundamental question is: what's the pivot length? whistle

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