2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
105 members (AndrewJCW, ambrozy, Beemer, Abdol, Animisha, anotherscott, anotherpianoplayer, akc42, 25 invisible), 617 guests, and 581 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Thumb under for bluesy tunes
#3048989 11/24/20 12:45 PM
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 10
A
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
A
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 10
Help please.
A person teaching blues piano online suggested using the thumb on I and 5 as a typical pattern, so I have been sticking to this rule for a while. So if am playing in G my thumb is on G and I pass my thumb under to reach to the D up the keyboard. He departs from this occasionally but I follow his finger pattern in that case.

I saw someone else teaching Bring it on Home to Me (Sam Cooke, The Animals). And he starts the solo off (in G) by going D (thumb), E (1st finger), G (3rd), B(5th). and at one point he goes up to the next D and uses 5 to do this, then switches to 345 to a little ornamentation a bit higher.
I was sticking to teacher number one's system using my thumb on G and D and have to say I found it a bit uncomfortable (and was missing from time to time).

Teacher number one posted a lesson on Bring it on Home to Me a couple of days ago and lo and behold, although he plays it in C he uses the same fingering as teacher number 2. So I switched to the thumb-under-free way of playing and I have to say I find this a lot easier - I mean a lot easier.

I could ask teacher number one this question but I asked a question before and he apologised but stressed that if he had to answer all the questions people send he would have no time to post his "free" lessons (he sells the music to tunes to help keep his lessons free, so he is quite a busy person).

So can anyone offer me some advice please about finger patterns to use as a rule of thumb (so to speak), and when it is permissible to deviate?

Re: Thumb under for bluesy tunes
AntonAnton #3048996 11/24/20 01:03 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 14,119
B
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 14,119
I don't knowingly play blues stuff unless it's in Gershwin or Joplin etc, so I have no idea what people who specialize in blues do.

But if you're still learning 5-finger positions, then your fingers will only play notes adjacent to each other. Sooner or later, you'll need to play with gaps (and therefore keys) between the fingers.....like arpeggios.

As for passing thumb beneath fingers, you should start with scales where you play thumb beneath/after 3, like C to C' using 1-2-3-1-2-3-4-5 and then back down, before passing thumb beneath 4 (which is trickier), as you would if playing more than one octave (1-2-3-1-2-3-4-1-2-3-1-2-3-4-5).


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: Thumb under for bluesy tunes
bennevis #3049040 11/24/20 03:28 PM
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 10
A
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
A
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 10
Thanks Benevis. I am not really learning 5-finger positions.
The online teacher spends some lessons teaching blues scales in C, G, A and E,...
As an aid for people like me (who have never really studied piano but can play a few chords and arpeggio them, for instance) he suggested that if we applied the idea of thumb on I and thumb on V that would help us a lot.

My question was why he departed from that rule in the example tune I cited and when is it wise to deviate from that principle?

Re: Thumb under for bluesy tunes
AntonAnton #3049050 11/24/20 03:52 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 14,119
B
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 14,119
Originally Posted by AntonAnton
As an aid for people like me (who have never really studied piano but can play a few chords and arpeggio them, for instance) he suggested that if we applied the idea of thumb on I and thumb on V that would help us a lot.

My question was why he departed from that rule in the example tune I cited and when is it wise to deviate from that principle?
I never heard of such a 'rule', but I suppose a reason for him teaching it is that chords I & V are the commonest in all Western music, so you're using the same fingerings for arpeggios and scales etc in them.

I've no idea how non-classical teachers teach piano, so I suggest you post your question in the Non-Classical Forum, where people might be better able to understand what you're getting at. It sounds like you're learning by copying what your teacher does by rote, and that's not the way I teach.


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: Thumb under for bluesy tunes
AntonAnton #3049123 11/24/20 06:27 PM
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 10
A
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
A
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 10
Thanks Bennevis. Very kind of you to take the time. I didn't know there was a non-classical forum. I am completely new here. I will take a look over there.

Re: Thumb under for bluesy tunes
AntonAnton #3049161 11/24/20 09:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,090
C
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
C
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,090
Originally Posted by AntonAnton
.. . .
My question was why he departed from that rule in the example tune I cited and when is it wise to deviate from that principle?

There is an over-riding principle:

. . . If a fingering rule doesn't work in a specific situation,
. . .. . ignore the rule,
. . . . . . and use a fingering that works.

There are (in classical teaching) "standard scale fingerings" which lots of pianists use to practice scales.

But in playing real pieces, those "standard" fingerings are no more than _suggestions_. Sometimes there's a scale passage, and the way it starts (or ends) means that the "standard" fingering is awkward:

. . . find another fingering that isn't awkward.

(I don't teach, this advice is worth what you paid.)


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq
Re: Thumb under for bluesy tunes
AntonAnton #3049164 11/24/20 09:13 PM
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 26
H
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
H
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 26
You might try this:
I'm going to assume you're using the blues scale: root, b3rd, 4th, b5th, 5th, 7th.

Key of C: 1 2 3 4 1 2 (thumbs on C and G)

D: 2 1 2 3 4 1 (thumbs on F and C)

Eb 1 2 3 1 2 3 (thumbs on Eb and A)

E 2 1 2 3 1 2 (thumbs on G and B)

F 1 2 3 1 2 3 (thumbs and F and B)

G 1 2 3 4 1 2 (thumbs on G and D)

Ab 1 2 3 1 2 3 (thumbs on Ab and D)

A 2 1 2 3 4 1 (thumbs on C and E)

Bb 1 2 3 1 2 3 (thumbs on Bb and E)

B 1 2 3 1 2 3 (thumbs on B and F)

There are other systems, but this one will get you going.


Good music has no expiration date.
Re: Thumb under for bluesy tunes
AntonAnton #3049254 11/25/20 06:52 AM
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 10
A
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
A
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 10
Thanks for these replies everybody.

Re: Thumb under for bluesy tunes
AntonAnton #3049314 11/25/20 09:44 AM
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 26
H
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
H
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 26
Hi,

Slight corrections to the above fingerings. (I entered them too fast)

The Blues scale is: root, b3rd, 4th, b5th, 5th, b7th, and root 8va


The fingering for the E scale: 1 2 3 4 1 2 1 (thumbs on E and B)

A scale 1 2 3 4 1 2 1 (thumbs on A and E)


Good music has no expiration date.
Re: Thumb under for bluesy tunes
AntonAnton #3049374 11/25/20 12:51 PM
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 10
A
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
A
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 10
Thanks Henderson Hall.

That is what I do in fact. Thumb on the I and the V. I wanted to know in what circumstances I should deviate from this as I see my online teachers doing.

Re: Thumb under for bluesy tunes
AntonAnton #3049406 11/25/20 02:13 PM
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 26
H
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
H
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 26
It is not unusual to run the blues scale using just fingers 1 and 3 in the right hand. You can peel off a pretty rapid run doing so, especially descending. Have both systems under your fingers. I don't believe the great players insist on hard and fast rules. Be ready to utilize whichever system fits the particular circumstance. The more you play the more comfortable you'll become with this system or that.
Be Well.


Good music has no expiration date.
Re: Thumb under for bluesy tunes
AntonAnton #3049425 11/25/20 02:50 PM
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 10
A
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
A
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 10
Useful tips. Thanks a lot.


Moderated by  Brendan, Kreisler 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
Our January 2021 Free Newsletter for piano lovers is here now...
---------------------
NEW! Sell Your Piano on our world famous Piano Forums!
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Online lessons suggestion/recommend
ations/experiences?

by Javaslinger - 01/26/21 01:32 PM
What’s the best Fender Rhodes VST?
by RinTin - 01/26/21 01:09 PM
mp7es recording
by Colette2 - 01/26/21 01:00 PM
Log Sheets to Track Scale & Arpeggio Practice
by Talão - 01/26/21 12:21 PM
Fanny Hensel Sonata in G minor
by Ainar - 01/26/21 12:01 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics204,571
Posts3,051,806
Members100,221
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4