2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
Who's Online Now
40 members (Eli26, DaEgg, EPW, Evgeny 85, cozmopak, Almaviva, carlspost, 13 invisible), 424 guests, and 410 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Nord Grand, or Kawai ES 920 ?
#3047597 11/19/20 04:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 64
D
doudou Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
D
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 64
my question may be strange 'cause they aren't in the same league price wise, but I'm searching for a lighter stage DP than my just sold MP11 and I hesitate between the Nord Grand and the ES 920.
They have similarities : Kawai RHIII keybed (slightly modified on the Nord), same weight of 20 kgs or less, and have currently the best sounds of acoustic pianos (most important for me) and electric.

Over the big advantage of the price 2x cheaper, the Kawai has internal speakers, powerful enough for not bringing external amp/PA in certain occasions (small parties with friends or family)

It's the quality of the acoustic piano sound mostly for classical music and the interaction sound/keyboard for max dynamics, colors, expression... They have the same keybed, but the sound engine has an important role in these interactions.

Thanks for your advices, it isn't possible to try them in music shops now (covid, distributors)

(ad)
Sweetwater Sale
Sweetwater Sale
Re: Nord Grand, or Kawai ES 920 ?
doudou #3047639 11/20/20 09:20 AM
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 251
_
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
_
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 251
I think Nord is popular among stage performers mainly for the voices and sound effects with direct controls. These may come handy if you'd use them often, but behind such stage pianos I feel more like in a cockpit than with a piano.

Personally I like Kawai sounds quite a lot, even ES8 speakers sounded quite okay for a slab to me. You can check the voice samples online with quality headphones (mind a bit gets lost due to the compression).

> They have the same keybed
They must be similar but I think you can't assume they feel the same, there are differences even among Kawai RHIII versions. I find the ES8 a bit nervously bouncy upon key return, while the CN29/39 are very nice.

Re: Nord Grand, or Kawai ES 920 ?
doudou #3047641 11/20/20 09:22 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 390
C
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
C
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 390
For me, the speakers would make the choice easy. The Kawai internal sounds are very good, and no one in your audience will come up afterwards and tell you they’d prefer it if you were playing a sample from a 1930s American Steinway. But it does depend on what you’ll be using it for. If you need to do major sound customization for live band work, the Nord is probably more flexible.


Rodney Sauer
Kawai KG-2E • Kawai ES8
Re: Nord Grand, or Kawai ES 920 ?
doudou #3047651 11/20/20 09:51 AM
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 290
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 290
A lighter stage piano than the MP11SE with the RHIII action ? The MP7SE has got you covered...

Last edited by ChrisGoesPiano; 11/20/20 09:53 AM.

A long time ago, in a musical galaxy far, far away...
Eminent-Solina B412, Yamaha DX21, Yamaha V50, Yamaha U1

21st century...
Kawai MP11SE, Kawai CA58
Re: Nord Grand, or Kawai ES 920 ?
doudou #3047658 11/20/20 10:09 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,650
A
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,650
Strictly as a piano, the Kawai should be fine, it's just a matter of your liking that sound. The Nord has the option of loading a much wider variety of different piano sounds, but even a real piano only has one sound, so as long as you're happy with the one, that's arguably what matters. Once you go outside the realm of piano, Nord has their large sample library and even the ability to let you load your own custom samples... but those don't make it a better piano, if that's what you're looking for.

Re: Nord Grand, or Kawai ES 920 ?
doudou #3047672 11/20/20 11:01 AM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 743
J
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 743
I hear mix reviews on the new es920 speakers, but otherwise if that is not an issue on your model you purchase,es920 all day


Yamaha P155, Yamaha P515
Re: Nord Grand, or Kawai ES 920 ?
doudou #3047676 11/20/20 11:17 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,127
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,127
Just make sure you try in a store and LOVE the Nord acoustic piano samples. If acoustic piano is your priority then Kawai IMO is the best choice.


AG N2 | ES 110 | REFACE CP | GK MK & MP amps
Re: Nord Grand, or Kawai ES 920 ?
doudou #3047685 11/20/20 11:35 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,122
E
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,122
I played the Nord Grand at a music store. Perfect feel and sound.

The ES 920 is 9lbs lighter.

Re: Nord Grand, or Kawai ES 920 ?
doudou #3047792 11/20/20 05:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 64
D
doudou Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
D
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 64
Thanks for your advices, many + for Kawai. I like the Kawai sound indeed, and don't need to have numerous buttons for tweaking sound and effects live.
I had a long time ago the Nord Stage 1 and wasn't kind of the acoustic piano sounds, nor the fatar keybed which was totally crap for classical music (improved now with the Nord Grand).

I'll prefer the ES over the MP7, because of the utility of speakers

Re: Nord Grand, or Kawai ES 920 ?
doudou #3047860 11/20/20 11:52 PM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,370
S
1000 Post Club Member
Online Content
1000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,370
With an ES920 you save enough to buy a macbook and VST or Dexibell midi module which like Nord can load samples into memory, including I believe using the memory for a single large unlooped sample. You instead could add a Roland Integra-7 midi module and greatly expand your sound pallette. These options still stay below the cost of a Nord Grand, which also will need monitors.

With the ES920 you get a piano with builtin speakers. That, and the above options offer much greater flexibility, and you are not committed to any of the extras above when you buy an ES920.

I like the Nord organs, but while the Nord pianos certainly are good, I've never viewed them as a particularly strong value proposition at their price.

Re: Nord Grand, or Kawai ES 920 ?
doudou #3047874 11/21/20 01:30 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 497
S
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
S
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 497
Nord is way overpriced.


Selmer Mark VI Tenor (‘73) & Alto Sax (‘57), Yamaha YSS-62 Soprano Sax (‘87), Conn Naked Lady Baritone Sax (‘52), Conn New Wonder Tenor & Alto Sax (‘24), Yamaha WX5 Wind Synth (‘13), Kawai MP11 & ES-110, Numa Compact 2x, Casio PX5S, Roland VR-09, Hammond E-112 (‘69).
Re: Nord Grand, or Kawai ES 920 ?
doudou #3047937 11/21/20 09:59 AM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 64
D
doudou Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
D
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 64
Yes Nord is overpriced, I didn't like the acoustic pianos in the 1rst Stage Version (and Fatar keybed...) : awful sound in the mediums, the middle of the keyboard. Something due to their compression algorithms in their samples ? I hope they improved the sound now.
But the fat top surface of the Nord Grand is cool for adding other keyboards over it (I have several Roland Boutique synths)

I don't need to buy a Mac, already have an Ipad pro 12,9 and a powerful tablet PC (I7, 512 SSD, 8GB). I have Pianoteq, Vintage D (uninstalled now), Ivory II (sold it), but I don't use them anymore.

I prefer not to use a VST in live (additional time to setup and gear to bring), that's why I'm in search of the best piano sound inboard. I don't think at all these ac. piano sounds are better in midi modules.

Re: Nord Grand, or Kawai ES 920 ?
doudou #3047972 11/21/20 11:02 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,650
A
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,650
The pianos have definitely gotten better since the first Stage models. The original came out in 2005, and I didn't especially like the Nord piano sample sets until they came out with the Grand Imperial in late 2010. Nicely you could still load those later piano sample sets into the first Stage, though. In fact you can still load any Nord grand piano sound into even the 2005 model except for the last one, White Grand, which came out last year. Three caveats... you can't load the largest ("XL") versions of any of the Grand Imperial and newer sample sets since they exceed that model's 128 mb capacity; you don't get the (pedal-up) sympathetic resonances; and you don't have the long release option.

Re: Nord Grand, or Kawai ES 920 ?
doudou #3047977 11/21/20 11:20 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,100
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,100
Originally Posted by doudou
my question may be strange 'cause they aren't in the same league price wise, but I'm searching for a lighter stage DP than my just sold MP11 and I hesitate between the Nord Grand and the ES 920.
They have similarities : Kawai RHIII keybed (slightly modified on the Nord), same weight of 20 kgs or less, and have currently the best sounds of acoustic pianos (most important for me) and electric.

Over the big advantage of the price 2x cheaper, the Kawai has internal speakers, powerful enough for not bringing external amp/PA in certain occasions (small parties with friends or family)

It's the quality of the acoustic piano sound mostly for classical music and the interaction sound/keyboard for max dynamics, colors, expression... They have the same keybed, but the sound engine has an important role in these interactions.

Thanks for your advices, it isn't possible to try them in music shops now (covid, distributors)

Hi Doudou,

There are a number of elements in digital piano sound worth considering and many more probably, which I'm less familiar:

1) Tone (the subjective like/dislike of the tonal character of the pianos in a digital)---something which also includes quality of the tone at various dynamic levels.
2) Dynamic control (is it discrete control over a number of volume levels with software smoothing out the transitions, or continuous like modelling?)
3) Resonances (the simulation or modeling of string, damper, and other resonances inherent in an acoustic piano) at various dynamic levels.
4) Realism of feeling and function across all 3 pedals and how the software responds to the action of e.g., depressing the damper.
5) Decay, attack etc e.g., inherrent character of the sample length and number of samples per note
6) Sound fidelity (the detail of the sound and how well it's projected ---either through the headphones or stereo speaker system---to simulate the experience of being sat at a piano), which is dependent upon both the sample rate e.g., how much of the continuous sound is captured by the sampling, and the quality of the amplification.


All these things can effect the overall experience of playing the piano, and should be qualitatively measurable via side-by-side testing of these two instruments.

Having spent quite a while on the Nord Grand and multiple other boards on a afternoon long test session, my conclusion about the Nord piano is that the fidelity, tone and resonance are really nice; however, dynamic control and pedal realism is less accurate than the Kawai. Also, the tone qualities are very different---the Kawai has that warm more mellow tone. The Nord pianos are very bright on average (especially the better tones).

Obviously, one possibility would be the Kawai ES920 with a VST like Garritan CFX grand (pro), which would give you a slightly better action (the Nord action is missing let-off simulation). This is assuming you won't make use of the Nord for what it is designed for, and I might be wrong about that assumption.

I would test both wait till you can before you buy.

Kind regards,

Doug.


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7SE; Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: Nord Grand, or Kawai ES 920 ?
doudou #3048024 11/21/20 02:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 64
D
doudou Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
D
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 64
Hi, if the ES920 is more dynamic than the Nord Grand (Kawai RHIII keyboard in both), the sound engine is better in the Kawai. That's what I'm in search, and I prefer a warm mellow tone than bright ones, for classical music of course. Pedal response is also crucial for me, mainly the forte, I rarely use sostenuto and una corda pedals in a DP.

I can't try for the moment because of Covid, music shops are closed during this second wave. I think the Kawai will be the winner

Re: Nord Grand, or Kawai ES 920 ?
doudou #3048036 11/21/20 03:17 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,100
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,100
Originally Posted by doudou
Hi, if the ES920 is more dynamic than the Nord Grand (Kawai RHIII keyboard in both), the sound engine is better in the Kawai. That's what I'm in search, and I prefer a warm mellow tone than bright ones, for classical music of course. Pedal response is also crucial for me, mainly the forte, I rarely use sostenuto and una corda pedals in a DP.

I can't try for the moment because of Covid, music shops are closed during this second wave. I think the Kawai will be the winner

I read a post on YouTube from a classical pianist who preferred to play the Nord Grand, so I wouldn't want you to over-weight my view, as others disagree. I hope you consider all factors and listen to the video reviews etc. 🙂


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7SE; Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: Nord Grand, or Kawai ES 920 ?
doudou #3048055 11/21/20 04:31 PM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,370
S
1000 Post Club Member
Online Content
1000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,370
Quote
1) Tone (the subjective like/dislike of the tonal character of the pianos in a digital)---something which also includes quality of the tone at various dynamic levels.
For classical repertoire and some jazz repertoire tonal sustain is critical. This refers to the tone envelope (how it evolves over the time a note is held) being as linear as possible to enable playing with a singing tone. This is more an objective measure of tone, and separates the wheat from the chaff when DP's are evaluated for classical repertoire.

Re: Nord Grand, or Kawai ES 920 ?
doudou #3048107 11/21/20 08:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 64
D
doudou Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
D
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 64
Yes I watch and listen videos of both, also sound demos on each brand sites.
Indeed the tonal sustain is very important to me, crucial for the legato

Re: Nord Grand, or Kawai ES 920 ?
doudou #3048161 11/22/20 04:52 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 497
S
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
S
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 497
Why did you sell your MP11 (not se)? I own one. I don't gig with it (do you?). I bought the ES-110 for gigging (after Covid...). 25 pounds is fine for me, 80 is not! Do you really think the 920 competes with it? Thanks.

Last edited by Skyscrapersax; 11/22/20 04:53 AM.

Selmer Mark VI Tenor (‘73) & Alto Sax (‘57), Yamaha YSS-62 Soprano Sax (‘87), Conn Naked Lady Baritone Sax (‘52), Conn New Wonder Tenor & Alto Sax (‘24), Yamaha WX5 Wind Synth (‘13), Kawai MP11 & ES-110, Numa Compact 2x, Casio PX5S, Roland VR-09, Hammond E-112 (‘69).
Re: Nord Grand, or Kawai ES 920 ?
doudou #3048198 11/22/20 07:54 AM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 64
D
doudou Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
D
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 64
Sorry if I forgot to write in my first post that I gigged with my Mp11, speaking of "lighter stage DP" and hesitating between 2 not so heavy models I thought it was clear.

At home I only play on my 1/4 acoustic grand, I only use the DP for concerts (I'm accompanist : opera singers, choirs, also I play some classical piano solo pieces when singers want a break).
I think I've done more than 70 recitals during the 6 years with my Mp11, carrying it alone with its stand + a PA.
I had before, since the beginning (gigging for more than 30 years) : Kurzweil PC88, Roland A90EX, Clavia Nord Stage 1, Roland RD700GX, Roland FP7F, Kawai MP11.

Yes the Mp's GH wooden action is good, if the ES920's RHIII is a level under it seems to be not that bad, and soundwise superior to the ES110 and Mp11 because it wasn't the SE


Moderated by  Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
Our October 2020 Free Piano Newsletter is Here!
---------------------
3,000,000+!
------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Dual-sensor vs Triple-sensor Actions
by Almaviva - 11/29/20 12:14 AM
Disklavier parts needed for Yamaha Mark 3 Disklavier
by Dfrankjazz - 11/28/20 10:52 PM
Pandemic a boon for piano stores?
by doremi - 11/28/20 10:37 PM
Yamaha Clavinova cvp209 Fault
by Johnnyretro - 11/28/20 09:45 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics203,120
Posts3,028,338
Members99,409
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2020 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4