2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
72 members (3B43, Beemer, BachToTheFuture, Befetti, Beowulf, Almar, aesop, 1957, 36251, Belma, 20 invisible), 635 guests, and 546 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
What Mikhail Pletnev said about Rachmaninov
#3047943 11/21/20 10:11 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 28,877
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
OP Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 28,877
In a new film coming out in January, 2021
https://vimeo.com/475119364?fbclid=IwAR2NsQd65MqXHmui08uShp62TXw6Ae2-yhXeERmyNiyfR1szpJqWIFzv_Oo

Mikhail Pletnev says about this about Rachmaninov: "Rachmaninov is not a composer, Rachmaninov is not a pianist...Rachmaninov is a spirit."

What do you think he means by this?

Re: What Mikhail Pletnev said about Rachmaninov
pianoloverus #3047959 11/21/20 10:41 AM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 1,486
S
1000 Post Club Member
Online Content
1000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 1,486
I think similar type statements, what i would call a pompous style, can be found about just any composer. Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, ... all have been qualified by superlatives, which at the end, do not mean much. Spitta on Bach has created quite a few of the romantic side, which is quite in contradiction with the actual life and personality of Bach. In the video a title like R composed the "most beutiful melodies ever written" is just an empty statement. When one has nothing interesting to say, you just put a catchy title.

So for this statement (of course one would need to read the whole context) suggesting R is more than a human being is, at face value, pretty emphatic and to me means nothing specific. Seems like a quip. I assume with more context, it could make some sense ....

Re: What Mikhail Pletnev said about Rachmaninov
pianoloverus #3047976 11/21/20 11:17 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,340
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,340
It has some of the classic movie trailer problems where they have put a lot of disparate pieces of the film into a narrative. It's a bit of speculation to say what he meant by that but if I can use the context within this clip, it seems he was referring to the spirit of the times in a cultural context. In other words, Rachmaninoff embodies or captures that spirit (or his music does). To some people, his music invokes sentiments that have cultural significance.

Re: What Mikhail Pletnev said about Rachmaninov
Pathbreaker #3047987 11/21/20 12:00 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 1,486
S
1000 Post Club Member
Online Content
1000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 1,486
Originally Posted by Pathbreaker
It's a bit of speculation to say what he meant by that but if I can use the context within this clip, it seems he was referring to the spirit of the times in a cultural context. In other words, Rachmaninoff embodies or captures that spirit (or his music does). To some people, his music invokes sentiments that have cultural significance.

That seems plausible ! But that would be also the case of a lot of other composers. To a large extent, composers reflect the spirit of their time and culture.

Re: What Mikhail Pletnev said about Rachmaninov
Sidokar #3047997 11/21/20 12:31 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 23,096
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 23,096
I'm with:

Originally Posted by Sidokar
I think similar type statements, what i would call a pompous style, can be found about just any composer.

....and, granting my not-highly-pro-Rachmaninoff bias, I think it's far less meaningful about him than about a few dozen other composers.

But meaningful is as meaningful does, and people is as people does. grin

Re: What Mikhail Pletnev said about Rachmaninov
pianoloverus #3048128 11/21/20 10:44 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,243
K
4000 Post Club Member
Online Content
4000 Post Club Member
K
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,243
The trailer kind of empties its clip starting with the 18th variation, doesn't it.

Thanks for making me aware of this, I will probably watch it. FWIW, over the last few days I have been letting my YouTube feed take me through all sorts of lesser known Russian piano literature and then a bunch of Rachmaninoff and that exercise made me appreciate how great a composer Rachmaninoff really is and made me feel strongly that his prominence really is a good example of the cream rises.

I also appreciate the answers given by Sidokar and Pathbreaker.


Keith D Kerman
PianoCraft
Rebuilding & Sales - vintage and used Steinway, Mason & Hamlin
New Steingraeber, Estonia, Baldwin
www.pianocraft.net
check out www.sitkadoc.com/ and www.vimeo.com/203188875
www.youtube.com/user/pianocraftchannel

keith@pianocraft.net 888-840-5460
Re: What Mikhail Pletnev said about Rachmaninov
pianoloverus #3048134 11/21/20 11:18 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 23,096
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 23,096
Again granting my bias, here's my list of composers about whom the idea is more apt:
(keyboard works only, just because I don't know other music well enough to consider composers on that basis)

Bach
Scarlatti
Beethoven
Mozart
Haydn
Schubert
Chopin
Schumann
Liszt
Alkan
Brahms
Grieg
Albeniz
Granados
Faure
Debussy
Ravel
Scriabin
Schoenberg
Joplin
Bartok
Prokofiev
Messiaen
Satie
Ives
Ligeti
Glass

It's not that I think Rachmaninoff was a bottom-of-the-heap composer, just that I'd consider him below these other composers on that curious criterion.

Re: What Mikhail Pletnev said about Rachmaninov
pianoloverus #3048147 11/22/20 03:03 AM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,902
I
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
I
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,902
In Russian the word that means "spirit" is mostly used to refer to willpower, courage, energy, like in the following example from Cambridge dictionary:
"The torture failed to break the prisoners spirit."

That's most probably what Pletnev meant.

Re: What Mikhail Pletnev said about Rachmaninov
Iaroslav Vasiliev #3048149 11/22/20 03:16 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 23,096
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 23,096
Originally Posted by Iaroslav Vasiliev
In Russian the word that means "spirit" is mostly used to refer to willpower, courage, energy, like in the following example from Cambridge dictionary:
"The torture failed to break the prisoners spirit."

That's most probably what Pletnev meant.

Thanks, sounds very possible!
It certainly works better.

I was thinking it was more like "spiritual."
(ah, words!!!) grin

ALTHOUGH, I'd say he did have his share of "spiritual" too....




Re: What Mikhail Pletnev said about Rachmaninov
pianoloverus #3049125 11/24/20 06:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 90
I
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
I
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 90
Claudio Arrau said the exact opposite about Rachmaninoff. He once claimed that Rachmaninoff was arrogant for "turning every piece into Rachmaninoff", and also, not being familiar with Beethoven's Eroica Variations (Op. 35).

Though I have my disagreements with the first statement. Earl Wild said of Rachmaninoff that during one of his [Rachmaninoff's] concerts, he told the conductor that he wanted to do Beethoven's Piano Concerto No. 1 (Op. 15) in strict classical tempo. [If I remember the interview from Earl Wild correctly.]

Pletnev's comments are accurate, but the 18th Variation of Rachmaninoff's Rhapsody is an incredible cliche to prove his point. I would've gone with the E minor theme from the first movement of Rachmaninoff's Piano Trio No. 2 in D minor (Op. 9).

Last edited by iaintagreatpianist; 11/24/20 06:33 PM.

Pianist-in-training. Also an 19 year old who hasn't grown up at heart.

Fanboy of Edward MacDowell. His Piano Concerto No. 2 in D minor really needs some revival, IMHO.

Repertoire in progress.
Re: What Mikhail Pletnev said about Rachmaninov
iaintagreatpianist #3049139 11/24/20 07:16 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 28,877
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
OP Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 28,877
Originally Posted by iaintagreatpianist
Claudio Arrau said the exact opposite about Rachmaninoff. He once claimed that Rachmaninoff was arrogant for "turning every piece into Rachmaninoff", and also, not being familiar with Beethoven's Eroica Variations (Op. 35).

Though I have my disagreements with the first statement. Earl Wild said of Rachmaninoff that during one of his [Rachmaninoff's] concerts, he told the conductor that he wanted to do Beethoven's Piano Concerto No. 1 (Op. 15) in strict classical tempo. [If I remember the interview from Earl Wild correctly.]

Pletnev's comments are accurate, but the 18th Variation of Rachmaninoff's Rhapsody is an incredible cliche to prove his point. I would've gone with the E minor theme from the first movement of Rachmaninoff's Piano Trio No. 2 in D minor (Op. 9).
Arrau was from a different generation than Rachmaninov so he was more inclined to take less liberties. I think criticizing someone for not knowing the Eroica Variations is quite silly. Pletnev did not choose the music for the video. I think using the 18th Variation makes perfect sense because the video is not intended for classical music aficionados.

Re: What Mikhail Pletnev said about Rachmaninov
Mark_C #3050806 11/29/20 09:26 AM
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 19
P
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
P
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 19
Originally Posted by Mark_C
Again granting my bias, here's my list of composers about whom the idea is more apt:
(keyboard works only, just because I don't know other music well enough to consider composers on that basis)

Bach
Scarlatti
Beethoven
Mozart
Haydn
Schubert
Chopin
Schumann
Liszt
Alkan
Brahms
Grieg
Albeniz
Granados
Faure
Debussy
Ravel
Scriabin
Schoenberg
Joplin
Bartok
Prokofiev
Messiaen
Satie
Ives
Ligeti
Glass

It's not that I think Rachmaninoff was a bottom-of-the-heap composer, just that I'd consider him below these other composers on that curious criterion.

Every person is entitled to his or her own opinion, so I must voice mine: Declaring Rachmaninoff to be “lesser” than any of these artists is pure unadulterated egotistic idiocy. Who d'you think you are, chief?

Re: What Mikhail Pletnev said about Rachmaninov
pianoloverus #3050808 11/29/20 09:28 AM
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 19
P
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
P
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 19
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
the video is not intended for classical music aficionados.

Define “classical music aficionados”?

Re: What Mikhail Pletnev said about Rachmaninov
piano_adoring #3050861 11/29/20 11:10 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 28,877
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
OP Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 28,877
Originally Posted by piano_adoring
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
the video is not intended for classical music aficionados.

Define “classical music aficionados”?
Use a dictionary if you don't know the meaning. And stop trolling.

Re: What Mikhail Pletnev said about Rachmaninov
pianoloverus #3052003 12/02/20 11:32 AM
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 3
D
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
D
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 3
Perhaps he meant that Rachmaninoff's music transcends above and beyond the context of the time when he was alive, or his personality, that the music survived the test of time, has a universal meaning or message which all of us can relate to or experience, that his work cannot be fitted in a category pianist or composer, that he became a spirit hovering above all of those definitions?

I am definitely looking forward to seeing the entire film, maybe the context of his statement will make the statement itself clearer.

Re: What Mikhail Pletnev said about Rachmaninov
piano_adoring #3052065 12/02/20 02:19 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 23,096
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 23,096
Originally Posted by piano_adoring
Every person is entitled to his or her own opinion, so I must voice mine: Declaring Rachmaninoff to be “lesser” than any of these artists is pure unadulterated egotistic idiocy. Who d'you think you are, chief?

Among other things I might say.... grin
I wasn't talking about degrees of goodness or greatness, but about the relative natures of their works -- all "IMO" of course.


Moderated by  Brendan, Kreisler 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
100,000!
---------------------
NEW! Sell Your Piano on our world famous Piano Forums!
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Do you normally ask dealer to tune piano?
by tony3304 - 01/18/21 07:25 AM
iPad pro (2020) MIDI Output not consistent
by Almar - 01/18/21 05:33 AM
used Kawai RX-1 or new Kawai GL-30?
by Guido, Roma - Italy - 01/18/21 05:23 AM
Roland F701 vs FP-90X (?)
by Mulberg - 01/18/21 02:17 AM
Garritan CFX, Sustain Release Samples ???
by DigitalMusicProduc - 01/17/21 11:18 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics204,352
Posts3,048,320
Members100,102
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4