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I'm currently playing on an Estonia L168, and although it's a lovely piano, I am beginning to consider a preowned Fazioli 212. Obviously, these two pianos can't be easily compared because of the difference in size, but for those who have played or serviced both brands, is there a measurable difference in build quality?

I have played on a Fazioli 183, and it was divine. I'm looking for something a bit bigger, though, as more of an upgrade from my current 168 Estonia.

Have you played the Fazioli? How old is it? If you have played and you do not find it obvious to you, I wouldn’t buy it just for the sake of having a Fazioli. I think most agree that Estonia and Fazioli are both fine instruments but not of same quality. Either perform well beyond my abilities. Wait until it is a piano you adore, then have an independent tech examine it and report to you. I have a Fazioli but wouldn’t recommend that or any brand without trying the instrument and being very drawn to it.

When two piano have very high build quality, I think your preferences about tone and touch should be the major deciding factor.

I don't think it matters if, for example, the build quality of the Estonia is an A or even A- and the build quality of the Fazioli is A+. Most people don't fall in love with a piano because of its build quality.

I have played a Fazioli 183, and I absolutely loved the action and the clarity of the tone. My playing is mostly Bach, and early Romantic/late classical, such as Schubert. The Estonia is a lovely instrument, but it does sound a bit muddled to me in the base and treble.

I have not played the Fazioli 212, but I am having it inspected by a very respected technician. The Fazioli is from 2008.
Unfortunately, travel during these times is very difficult for me to see this piano in person. But I have read that Faziolis, in general, are remarkably consistent.

A good Fazioli can be incredible. If you're looking for a bigger piano, and you found the 183 divine, the 212 is a step up again. You'll need to make sure you've found a good one though. You don't know how it has been maintained. You'll need to have a technician inspect it to see if any (hopefully small) issues with it can be rectified.

I'm having a very respected technician inspect it tomorrow.

I hope all goes well. It could be incredible.

What you have heard about their consistency is true, but believe me, they vary in tone. Hopefully you love this one!

Thank you! I do believe that much of the tone can be tweaked by proper voicing.

How old is the 212?

I generally don’t put these pianos in the same league, with the caveat that the sound of most Faziolis are fairly particular— if you’re into it, you’re really into it, and vice versa.

It’s cool you got to try a 183. I’ve never seen one before.

The Fazioli 212 is 12 years old.

Normal service of your Estonia L168 cannot fully make up for the size difference in the bass, but some added voicing work in the treble might really help. What age is your L168?

Out of curiosity, have you played a comparable size Estonia? The L210 or perhaps even the L225? I couldn't speak to your preferences among individual instruments, but the added length may give you what you are looking for.

I must admit that I prefer Fazioli when voiced to the warmer side of their range. It is a tremendous instrument, but not naturally warm. It may be exactly what you are looking for.

My L168 is from the early 2000s

Fazioli is an incredible piano, one of the world's finest. Some pianists find them hypersensitive but thats because they're ultra responsive. They have great design and can take many different styles of voicing, so in that respect it's also a very versatile piano and it possesses great clarity. Estonia is also a great piano but it's not in the league of a Fazioli. That said, it comes down to preference. Some players might prefer an Estonia because they like a certain sound, and some players might prefer the Fazioli, and it's not as if you'd be getting a bad piano by sticking with the Estonia.

Your 168 is from the early 2000s which is before there was a big redesign of the Estonia line. The early 2000s 168 is OK but it's not as high quality as they're making now.

A 2012 Fazioli was more refined than an Estonia in the early 2000's. Estonia improved quickly to close that gap, and much of the elevated status of Fazioli is due to their considerable focus on their concert grands for competitions, whereas Estonia has focused heavily on their L210 and L225 in the last 8 years.

Yours is still a very good piano, so a fresh, detailed and deliberate service to push the piano in the direction you want would benefit you. A cleaner, clearer voice is often an attainable goal.

A great piano's performance changes slowly, gradually, almost at the pace that we age. Of course, your aims may require a larger instrument, but I've seen quite a few good pianos fall out of favor with those types of services left unexplored.

That said, I'm all for upgrading to a larger, more enjoyable instrument. Service is not a substitute for +40 cm in the bass register. I would simply add a larger Estonia to your list of candidates.

I have played on a larger and newer Estonia a few years ago. I believe it was a 210. I was impressed. But the control I had over the dynamic range of the Fazioli that I played was unique. It left a very strong impression on me. I don’t remember that same impression after playing the larger Estonia. The level of control I was able to exact on the Fazioli was something I’ve never felt before with any other piano.

Honestly if I had the money and was in the market for a new 7' piano, the Fazioli would certainly be on the short list.

Side note: If the plate of the Estonia says "L168" instead of just "168," it's from no earlier than 2005 or 6, which means that many improvements were already implemented, though further refinements have continued through the years.

I have a somewhat tangential (to your goal) experience to share: a couple of years ago, I was quite impressed by Estonia L210 and L225, looking to replace our previous Yamaha GB1. If not for space concern I would go for L225, which to me was even better than L210. On the other hand, I didn't quite like their concert grand (not that I have the space), or their L190: concert grand due to the profound tonal break in the low/high treble junction, and L190 for the thinner sound (to me).

But at Piano Craft, where I tried those Estonias, they unfortunately also carry Steingraeber that diverted my attention. For my own ability, Estonias are more than sufficient, but I could tell the Steingraeber 192, which I almost bought, has a lot more range. When I was ready to place the order, Piano Craft put up a rebuilt Hamburg Steinway B that eventually got our money.

Looking back, I would say our Steinway B, and the Steingraeber I almost bought, are in the "racecar" range for me that they are extraordinarily responsive to pianists' input. My wife, the much better pianist at home, mainly plays the B.

Last year, still having some itch about upgrading our NY Steinway A and also curious about Fazioli, I went to Faust Harrison in New York City hoping to try out an F212. It was somewhat an impromptu trip, and unfortunately they kept their F212 in a different site that I didn't have time to visit. They did have an F228 that I tried. To me that was also a superb instrument. But on the same day, prior to visiting Faust Harrison, I walked by Steinway Hall where they had an already-sold Hamburg Steinway C, which to me was even better.

I think eventually you'd have to try out a specific piano that you are thinking about buying. While all good pianos have a range to be voiced/regulated to, I would at least have to like whatever "baseline" they are prepared/presented.

Thank you for that wonderful account.

I have not played on a Steingraeber, but I have heard wonderful things.

I’ve played on many Steinways. Some are exquisite and some are not, at least in my experience.