2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
88 members (Baltguy, ambrozy, A. Lucato, 36251, Beansparrow, 24 invisible), 702 guests, and 531 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Re: Most "underplayed" piece?
Pathbreaker #3045182 11/12/20 09:32 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,338
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,338
Originally Posted by Pathbreaker
Originally Posted by Carey
I think that the 2nd Impromptu (Opus 36) would be the most underplayed of the four Impromptus - given the difficulty of the final section. All those running notes - yikes !!

https://youtu.be/DpcBEpiLDWA

I'm amazed that Henle rates all four Impromptus at Level 7 (difficult). This one is clearly an 8.

I agree that this is a stunning piece. Only last year, I think, I heard this as if for the first time. Listened to it so much that I had to learn it. That's how that happens.

To me there is a rare quality to this piece because of the overall mood, organization of the sections and variety of style. Each section flows into the next but the nature of the sections are so dramatically different. The wonderfully subdued opening leads to jubilant expression in the closing pages.

I worked on this with my teacher from beginning to end but it didn't make it to the "done" pile (partly because it was never on the agenda to learn haha). That last section and the section before it (my favorite) are very difficult. Hopefully will return to it sometime next year. Similar to the comments about op. 51, there are few performances of this piece that I really like. I find Claudio Arrau to be a reliable source for the Nocturnes and Impromptus and he doesn't disappoint in the op. 36.


Someone else will mention it eventually but I will add Brahms Variations on an Original Theme op. 21 no. 1. I've heard many versions but at this point I'm not really sure which to recommend. I "found" the piece when hearing Julius Katchen's recording. You could certainly do worse. It's wonderful.

It seems that Brahms developed this composition over an extended period of time while he was working out his own techniques in variation. He did this during a period of obsession over the late Beethoven sonatas.

Missed the edit window! Volodos does an excellent job on the Brahms. It's a nice alternative as the approach is very different. It's more clearly expressive and lacks the occasional harshness of the Katchen recording.

Re: Most "underplayed" piece?
Pathbreaker #3045254 11/12/20 02:54 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 23,091
Mark_C Offline OP
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 23,091
Originally Posted by Pathbreaker
...Someone else will mention it eventually....

We might not have! ha

Quote
....I will add Brahms Variations on an Original Theme op. 21 no. 1.

YES!
Big time.

In fact, if I'd thought of it I might have said that the 3rd Impromptu is only in second place!

Quote
It seems that Brahms developed this composition over an extended period of time while he was working out his own techniques in variation. He did this during a period of obsession over the late Beethoven sonatas.

I've seen a quote to that effect -- in German (maybe in the German language wiki article on the piece?). I didn't remember that it was specifically about the late sonatas, but that certainly makes sense. I worked on the piece for a while last year (gave it up because I saw that I was never going to 'get there' with at least one of the variations), and the last variation reminded me all over the place of the second movement of Opus 111.

I can understand why the piece isn't performed more. Maybe this isn't the main reason but I'm sure it's in there: It is a hard piece to "bring off" to an audience, and I think it is very much an acquired taste. I'd guess that many or most people who love it came to love it only after multiple hearings. One of the top contestants in the amateur competitions had it on his program for (I think) the semi-finals in one of those events -- I think the first time anyone had done the piece in any of the U.S. amateur competitions (and I think still the only time). I was looking forward greatly to it, and I alerted some of the others -- like, 'you gotta hear this piece.' They were all disappointed, and I don't think it was particularly because of the performance, but because of how the piece is.

I personally love it.

Re: Most "underplayed" piece?
Mark_C #3045294 11/12/20 05:22 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,060
D
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
D
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,060
Chopin:sonata 1, op.4 and Allegro de Concert op.46, really practically no one has these in the fingers (I happen to do haha), Schumann: 2nd sonata op.14 'Concert sans Orchestre', Brahms: 1st sonata op.1, a masterpiece, Alkan 3 pieces dans le genre pathetique, op.15: should be played!, Schmitt: 'Ombres", a brother of Gaspard.


Longtemps, je me suis couché de bonne heure, but not anymore!
Re: Most "underplayed" piece?
Mark_C #3045328 11/12/20 07:27 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 371
S
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
S
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 371

Re: Most "underplayed" piece?
Mark_C #3045365 11/12/20 10:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 87
I
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
I
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 87
Thank you for making this thread, for my purpose on this forum is actually worthwhile now!


Edward MacDowell's Piano Concerto No. 2 in D minor. While it was once played as often as the Grieg A minor concerto, the MacDowell is barely heard today, in part because almost everyone who championed the piece has now passed.

Some of these pianists included, but were not limited to: Edward MacDowell himself (of course), Teresa Carreño (never recorded any concerti), Jesùs Maria Sanromà (made the first recording of this concerto), Van Cliburn (his mother's favorite composer was MacDowell), Gary Graffman (he never recorded it but he has played it before, at least on one occasion in 1950), and Andrè Watts (still alive thankfully).

My favorite interpretation is that of Cliburn. It was what convinced me to learn this piece (even though I don't think anyone other than perhaps MacDowell and Carreño will EVER play it as well as Cliburn). The long arches of melody are done in such a way that this piece almost seems like a Rachmaninoff concerto.

Which is ironic, cause Rachmaninoff once attended a concert of Carreño and Nikisich playing this very concerto, and didn't like it. What gives!


Pianist-in-training. Also an 19 year old who hasn't grown up at heart.

Fanboy of Edward MacDowell. His Piano Concerto No. 2 in D minor really needs some revival, IMHO.

Repertoire in progress.
Re: Most "underplayed" piece?
scriabinfanatic #3045370 11/12/20 10:56 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 23,091
Mark_C Offline OP
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 23,091
Originally Posted by scriabinfanatic

I had a feeling that was going to be the Scriabin Concerto!

For a while I co-hosted a classical music radio show. One time I did a "guess the composer" call in show. I included this piece. Nobody had a clue.

I love the last movement especially. I've had some chances to play with an orchestra. I'd do this concerto -- if I could.

Re: Most "underplayed" piece?
iaintagreatpianist #3045375 11/12/20 11:05 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 23,091
Mark_C Offline OP
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 23,091
Originally Posted by iaintagreatpianist
Edward MacDowell's Piano Concerto No. 2 in D minor....barely heard today....

Speaking of radio and "name the composer," one time years ago I was driving along and turned on the local classical radio station. It was in the middle of some piano concerto -- Romantic-ish, probably Russian but I had some doubt -- I really had no idea. It was this -- played by Cliburn.

Quote
My favorite interpretation is that of Cliburn.

How about that! smile

BTW, I have about 20 recordings of Brahms' 2ne Concerto, and for a while the piece was sort of the only thing I listened to, over and over, all the recordings. My favorite was: Cliburn
Runner-up: Rubinstein

I know that some would say this means I must be mentally challenged. ha

Quote
It was what convinced me to learn this piece....

So you even play it!

Re: Most "underplayed" piece?
Mark_C #3045421 11/13/20 05:52 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,243
K
4000 Post Club Member
Online Content
4000 Post Club Member
K
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,243
Cool thread with some beautiful playing. I was surprised at how well a young Scriabin was paid for his concerto! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano_Concerto_(Scriabin)


Keith D Kerman
PianoCraft
Rebuilding & Sales - vintage and used Steinway, Mason & Hamlin
New Steingraeber, Estonia, Baldwin
www.pianocraft.net
check out www.sitkadoc.com/ and www.vimeo.com/203188875
www.youtube.com/user/pianocraftchannel

keith@pianocraft.net 888-840-5460
Re: Most "underplayed" piece?
Mark_C #3045436 11/13/20 07:27 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,427
6000 Post Club Member
Online Content
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,427
It’s easier to say what Scriabin works are overplayed 😕 I think Etude op.8/12. Can’t think of anything else. He is so terribly underplayed. BTW, you can call me scriabinfanatic2 😛


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Most "underplayed" piece?
Mark_C #3045440 11/13/20 07:51 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 55
M
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
M
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 55
Great thread. Another jewel that is totally under performed.

Granados' Escenas Romanticas. Difficult to find a full you tube video but here you go. This is a particularly fine performance. Perhaps the reason for this work not being performed so often is the Allegro Appassionato (no 5) which is quite a devil. Starts at 15.23

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73BoD7nadyk

Enjoy

Deon


1928 Knabe grand. Currently fantasizing and preparing Beethoven op. 110. Still struggling with Baba Black sheep.
Re: Most "underplayed" piece?
Mark_C #3045441 11/13/20 07:55 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 55
M
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
M
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 55
Forgot to add - this piano has a truly buttery sound!

Deon


1928 Knabe grand. Currently fantasizing and preparing Beethoven op. 110. Still struggling with Baba Black sheep.
Re: Most "underplayed" piece?
iaintagreatpianist #3045458 11/13/20 09:10 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 28,860
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 28,860
Originally Posted by iaintagreatpianist
Edward MacDowell's Piano Concerto No. 2 in D minor. While it was once played as often as the Grieg A minor concerto, the MacDowell is barely heard today, in part because almost everyone who championed the piece has now passed.
Everyone who originally champion any piece always die. The question is why no new champions appeared for the Macdowell. Almost no Macdowell whether solo or concerto is played today. I don't think I've heard even one Macdowell piece on the hundreds of recitals I've attended.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 11/13/20 09:14 AM.
Re: Most "underplayed" piece?
Mark_C #3045466 11/13/20 09:37 AM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 1,482
S
1000 Post Club Member
Online Content
1000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 1,482
There are so many pieces that are actually never played. Not all of them are masterpieces, but certainly worth listening. Just in the area of piano concerto, i could find easily several that are never played. The classic repertoire regularly played is so narrow, even within 19th century and 20th century tonal music.

Re: Most "underplayed" piece?
Sidokar #3045510 11/13/20 12:23 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 23,091
Mark_C Offline OP
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 23,091
Originally Posted by Sidokar
There are so many pieces that are actually neve....Just in the area of piano concerto, i could find easily several that are never played...

....which reminds me of this piece which I hadn't even thought of, because of that, but which is the one piece I would choose if I had a magic wand that let me be able to play one piece that I would choose:



The best movement to me is the last (it's also the hardest), but I love them all.

Re: Most "underplayed" piece?
pianoloverus #3045544 11/13/20 02:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 87
I
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
I
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 87
Originally Posted by Mark_C
Originally Posted by iaintagreatpianist
Edward MacDowell's Piano Concerto No. 2 in D minor....barely heard today....

Speaking of radio and "name the composer," one time years ago I was driving along and turned on the local classical radio station. It was in the middle of some piano concerto -- Romantic-ish, probably Russian but I had some doubt -- I really had no idea. It was this -- played by Cliburn.

MacDowell was American, but under Cliburn's hands it sounded Russian. Perhaps that's why I like his interpretation best. I've read a biography of MacDowell before, by E. Douglas Bomberger, and he clearly states that MacDowell was not interested in creating a national sound for America, but rather, simply in creating music.

Originally Posted by Mark_C
Originally Posted by iaintagreatpianist
My favorite interpretation is that of Cliburn.

How about that! smile

BTW, I have about 20 recordings of Brahms' 2ne Concerto, and for a while the piece was sort of the only thing I listened to, over and over, all the recordings. My favorite was: Cliburn
Runner-up: Rubinstein

I know that some would say this means I must be mentally challenged. ha

Interesting you mention that, one of my piano teacher's colleagues, who really studied both Brahms and Schumann, also told me his favorite interpretation of the Brahms Second Concerto was Cliburn's!

Originally Posted by Mark_C
Originally Posted by iaintagreatpianist
It was what convinced me to learn this piece....

So you even play it!
Yes, I play the MacDowell Second Concerto. Well, I'm learning it. The first movement I can do pretty well, but the second movement I still need some work, and the third I haven't finished (heck, I just started the third movement!).

Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Everyone who originally champion any piece always die. The question is why no new champions appeared for the Macdowell. Almost no Macdowell whether solo or concerto is played today. I don't think I've heard even one Macdowell piece on the hundreds of recitals I've attended.

I have suspicions about why MacDowell is no longer played these days, but I press on anyways. I personally feel his works need a revival. Liszt respected him, so did Grieg, Godowsky & Paderewski.

It's true that Rachmaninoff did not like MacDowell's music, but I feel Rachmaninoff and MacDowell weren't so far apart. Both were among the finest composers in their countries, both did not like the direction that music was going in their homelands, etc etc


Pianist-in-training. Also an 19 year old who hasn't grown up at heart.

Fanboy of Edward MacDowell. His Piano Concerto No. 2 in D minor really needs some revival, IMHO.

Repertoire in progress.
Re: Most "underplayed" piece?
dolce sfogato #3046015 11/14/20 10:10 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,338
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,338
Originally Posted by achoo42
Most Schumann masterpieces belong high up on a list of most "underperformed" works.

Among them: Davidsbundlertanze, Sonata No.3, Humoreske, Novelletten, and Bunte Blatter.

The first and last are two of my favorites by Schumann. There's a fair number of op. 6 recordings to enjoy but not so much for the op. 99.

Originally Posted by dolce sfogato
Chopin:sonata 1, op.4 and Allegro de Concert op.46, really practically no one has these in the fingers (I happen to do haha), Schumann: 2nd sonata op.14 'Concert sans Orchestre', Brahms: 1st sonata op.1, a masterpiece, Alkan 3 pieces dans le genre pathetique, op.15: should be played!, Schmitt: 'Ombres", a brother of Gaspard.

Any recommendations on the Brahms op. 1? I listened to it today and still not getting it (I picked a random performance). Then started to listen to another recording and it was like an entirely different piece of music. I might have to try a few more.

I would add Brahms 2nd sonata op. 2 to that list https://youtu.be/se5agQ6dSkc (Peter Rösel). It's probably played a bit more than op. 1 but much less than op. 5.

So in the second attempt to listen to Op. 1 I was quite shocked by how amazing he closes the first movement. I guess I never made it that far in the past. I'll keep this one on my todo list. It just doesn't grab hold in the shocking way that the op. 2 does. I think op. 2 is my favorite. The writing is almost comically far out.

Originally Posted by Mark_C
Originally Posted by Sidokar
There are so many pieces that are actually neve....Just in the area of piano concerto, i could find easily several that are never played...

....which reminds me of this piece which I hadn't even thought of, because of that, but which is the one piece I would choose if I had a magic wand that let me be able to play one piece that I would choose:



The best movement to me is the last (it's also the hardest), but I love them all.


Yeah, this Henslet concerto is a great example of underplayed. Never heard it before but I really like it. It seems this one is really NOT played much at all. The link says there's only three recordings and no one bothers to play this. I don't hear much that's similar to Rachmaninoff (and didn't follow that link) but there were times that I was almost hearing the Busoni concerto in there (I realize this one predates Busoni), especially in the religioso section.

There's a lot to enjoy in this thread. I've always loved the Scriabin Concerto. Not sure why that isn't played more. I don't even care much for Scriabin otherwise but that concerto is still very special.

I haven't heard the MacDowell but will give it a listen soon.

Originally Posted by Mark_C
Originally Posted by Pathbreaker
It seems that Brahms developed this composition over an extended period of time while he was working out his own techniques in variation. He did this during a period of obsession over the late Beethoven sonatas.

I've seen a quote to that effect -- in German (maybe in the German language wiki article on the piece?). I didn't remember that it was specifically about the late sonatas, but that certainly makes sense. I worked on the piece for a while last year (gave it up because I saw that I was never going to 'get there' with at least one of the variations), and the last variation reminded me all over the place of the second movement of Opus 111.

I can understand why the piece isn't performed more. Maybe this isn't the main reason but I'm sure it's in there: It is a hard piece to "bring off" to an audience, and I think it is very much an acquired taste. I'd guess that many or most people who love it came to love it only after multiple hearings. One of the top contestants in the amateur competitions had it on his program for (I think) the semi-finals in one of those events -- I think the first time anyone had done the piece in any of the U.S. amateur competitions (and I think still the only time). I was looking forward greatly to it, and I alerted some of the others -- like, 'you gotta hear this piece.' They were all disappointed, and I don't think it was particularly because of the performance, but because of how the piece is.

I personally love it.

I don't have any sources. I researched it quite a bit when working on it and some of the information I found made for a nice narrative. Here's a link since I forgot to provide one (Peter Rösel): https://youtu.be/pJkzUEi4KyI

Your assessment of why it's not played more is reasonable. Although I had heard it in the past it never did anything for me until recently. I never got the piece to a performance level but even if I had, I'm not sure in what context I would perform it. For all the trouble I think it would be a tough sell. But if I performed regularly I'd find an excuse to add it smile

Re: Most "underplayed" piece?
Pathbreaker #3046061 11/15/20 04:48 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 14,087
B
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 14,087
Originally Posted by Pathbreaker
Any recommendations on the Brahms op. 1? I listened to it today and still not getting it (I picked a random performance). Then started to listen to another recording and it was like an entirely different piece of music. I might have to try a few more.
Did you listen to Krystian Zimerman? I gave the link in my earlier post.

Here it is again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdlTTS2av9g


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: Most "underplayed" piece?
achoo42 #3046247 11/15/20 03:03 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,710
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,710
Originally Posted by achoo42
Most Schumann masterpieces belong high up on a list of most "underperformed" works.

Among them: Davidsbundlertanze, Sonata No.3, Humoreske, Novelletten, and Bunte Blatter.

I don't understand why some Schumann isn't more popular. I particularly love the 3rd sonata. Gesänge Der Frühe is another favourite.

Re: Most "underplayed" piece?
Mark_C #3047433 11/19/20 07:27 AM
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 230
Full Member
Online Content
Full Member
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 230
I agree with OP about the third impromptu. Easily the best one and nobody plays it.

Re: Most "underplayed" piece?
chopinetto #3047471 11/19/20 10:22 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 28,860
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 28,860
Originally Posted by chopinetto
I agree with OP about the third impromptu. Easily the best one and nobody plays it.
If you look at YouTube you will see there are numerous recordings. Amateur pianists may not play it as much as the first and fourth Impromptus because of its technical difficulty.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 11/19/20 10:23 AM.
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Brendan, Kreisler 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
100,000!
---------------------
NEW! Sell Your Piano on our world famous Piano Forums!
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Moving the Steinway Across the Country
by Greg Midi - 01/17/21 10:35 AM
First DP in 30 years
by Moggul - 01/17/21 10:24 AM
I just discovered music of Violet Archer
by iamandrew3 - 01/17/21 10:19 AM
Pianist Magazine's Online Courses
by bSharp(C)yclist - 01/17/21 10:00 AM
Performance crash and burn
by spartan928 - 01/17/21 09:51 AM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics204,324
Posts3,047,799
Members100,095
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4