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Re: Kawai announces ES920 and ES520 portable digital pianos
dmd #3043390 11/06/20 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Hello dp7,

Originally Posted by dp7
So do you think I received a faulty unit?

I'm afraid I don't know. However, if you believe the piano is not functioning correctly, you should seek assistance from the retailer (Thomann) or Kawai distributor/subsidiary (Kawai Europe).

Originally Posted by dp7
Playing multiple bass notes was producing an awful amount of vibrations.

If I was to select an electric piano sound, lay my arm across the bottom octave of keys, and play a cluster of notes at maximum volume with the damper pedal pressed, I expect I could probably cause the instrument to create a large amount of vibrations. However, this is obviously not typical playing behaviour.

Originally Posted by dp7
I'll post a video when I have some spare time to show it to you.

If you wish to send me a PM with a link to the video, I would be happy to take a look and tell you my opinion, however I'm afraid there is not really a great deal that I can do beyond this. Again, my advice would be to seek assistance from the retailer and/or Kawai distributor/subsidiary - this is ultimately more productive than trying to assess whether or not there is an issue with your piano via an internet forum.

Originally Posted by dp7
Regarding the audio problem, a second unit I've tested in a store presented the same issue.

Were you able to discuss this observation with the store's staff? Incidentally, may I ask why you opted against purchasing the instrument from your local dealer?

Best of luck!

Kind regards,
James
x
As promised...

Here's the video of one of the problems with the action of my ES-920. Few hours of playng with a 1600€/$ DP and this was the situation: some clicking keys, others that lost their fallback force, some others that felt a bit "sticky". The action itself it's pretty good to my taste. Does not come close to a real Acoustic (neither the P-515 or the FP-90 achieved this to me) but felt fun to play and pleasant. A shame that had all this issues with very little time of playing (these problems came out playing the instrument with proper manners of course).

https://vimeo.com/user126576778

I wasn't able to embed the direct video but I think it'll work anyway.




Originally Posted by dmd
Originally Posted by dp7
Hey, dmd. I don't get what your point is. Are you assuming I'm demanding too much from some internal speakers? ...

I am just trying to shake something loose here.

You see, this scenario you describe does not make sense to me.

It defies logic and probabilities.

Here is another chance for you to help me understand ....

When you were at the local store and tried the 2nd ES920 and found it also made that unacceptable sound ....

Did you bring it to the attention of anyone working in the store .... to see what they might say about it ?

I would expect that you did that .... but you make no mention of it ... that I have seen, anyway.
The salesman was pretty busy so he didn't spent much time with me (he also said to me that the ES-920 was the one with most watts delivered by the speakers, and this says a lot XD) I ended up concentrating myself only on the playing experience.
Feel free to think that I just imagined all that in my mind, mate, and I had fun going through RMA and staying without an instrument for some weeks...

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Re: Kawai announces ES920 and ES520 portable digital pianos
Gustavo Guerra #3043612 11/07/20 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Gustavo Guerra
So I decided to order an ES920 and compare it with the ES520. Here is my take:
* In term of sound quality, to be honest while I saw a big difference between the ES110 and the ES520 I couldn't see a noticeable difference between the ES520 and the ES920 straight away. But I only tried it for around one hour yet. There's a few extra sounds compared to the ES520, which is nice, but again, less of a delta than between the 110 and the 520.
* Unlike the ES520, I didn't see any weird issues with the ES920 software. It remembers the last selected sound in each category correctly, it remember metronome and rhythm section settings separately without resetting every time you switch between them, and it does save metronome/rhythm settings on registrations. Also you can jump that rhythms at the time by pressing and holding the rhythm and next button, so it makes it faster to go to the one you want, as you will only need 6 or 7 presses rather than 70 on average on the ES520
* The accompaniment feature is fun to play around with pop/rock stuff, but of course as expected it doesn't pickup jazz chords very well, so if you do R37 or R379 voicing it gets it right, but if you a R73 it doesn't. But that's fine, I mostly want to use the drums only. It's a shame it hasn't have a way to trigger the fill-in by pressing one of the pedals or something like that in addition to being pre-set to a number of bars.
* The keys feels nicer. I was worried they would feel heavier, and they are heavier than the ES110, but in the same ballpark as of the ES520. They seem to have the exact same matte finish as on the ES520, so no difference in slipperiness, but they are slightly less noisy, which is great. When you release them and they go back up, they are still noisy, but they rattle a little bit less than on the ES520, and the total noise ends up being more muffed than on the ES520. You can feel the escapement point, but it's very subtle. On the Roland it's much more obvious, but maybe that's one of the reasons the Roland keys felt so heavy

I will need to play a bit with it to have a better feel, but I think I'm keeping the 920 and sending back the 520.

Actually I just found that there is indeed a setting that allows the left and middle pedals to control different aspects of the rhythm feature. Great!


Adult beginner
Kawai ES920, Yamaha Reface CP, Sennheiser HD 599 Headphones, Behringer U-PHORIA UMC202HD Audio Interface

Re: Kawai announces ES920 and ES520 portable digital pianos
Kawai James #3043680 11/07/20 08:51 PM
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Is the RHC II in the ES520 the same as the RHC II in the Kawai ES7?

Re: Kawai announces ES920 and ES520 portable digital pianos
Gustavo Guerra #3043708 11/08/20 02:27 AM
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Thank you for your review..
I’ve read in the ES920 manual that it will not remember tempo changing in the middle of the song, but I’m still curious whether it can play recorded midi (.mid/.smf) with tempo changing in it or not, have you tried it?

Re: Kawai announces ES920 and ES520 portable digital pianos
Pete14 #3043744 11/08/20 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Pete14
Originally Posted by terminaldegree
Under 38 pounds.

Pete, if you don’t understand the significance of that, you seem to have little grasp of how the majority of customers are buying these slabs...i.e. not “fully dressed” with the factory stands and pedal units. Portability aside, that part of the equation tends to ruin the value proposition in favor of just getting a lower-end console instead.

I still maintain that the go-to choice for portability are slabs without speakers. In many cases not even 88 keys are needed for gigging (unless you’re playing the Rach III), so 61 keys can do the job; further contributing to even smaller dimensions. It’s not all about weight when it comes to portability, and hauling 88 keys around is a pain in the arse regardless of weight.

I’ll be even more cynical: The weight reduction in these new pianos is not Kawai’s way of saying “you guys, we want to make it easier for you to haul around the ES-920”, but rather a shrewd decision to save on quality materials; they’re most likely using cheap, flimsy, light plastic, etc..!

Fender Rhodes had it "right" with 77 keys! (but not weight, obviously!). 77 hammer action keys, no speakers, lightweight plastic or aluminum, easy big buttons with no menu diving or piano key combinations, integrated VST / Pianotec (why not?) = ultimate gigging keyboard.


Selmer Mark VI Tenor (‘73) & Alto Sax (‘57), Yamaha YSS-62 Soprano Sax (‘87), Conn Naked Lady Baritone Sax (‘52), Conn New Wonder Tenor & Alto Sax (‘24), Yamaha WX5 Wind Synth (‘13), Kawai MP11 & ES-110, Numa Compact 2x, Casio PX5S, Roland VR-09, Hammond E-112 (‘69).
Re: Kawai announces ES920 and ES520 portable digital pianos
Kawai James #3043772 11/08/20 09:52 AM
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Hello all. Not sure if this is the right place to ask this, I had been looking to purchase a new (or used) DP to upgrade my old Yamaha YDP-213. I had been looking at something along the lines of:
YAMAHA P515 or P255
ROLAND FP90 or FP80
KAWAI ES920 or ES8

I was leaning towards the KAWAI as I have heard the action is a bit “lighter” which I tend to prefer, but after seeing the above video I am skeptical.

My budget was initially set at $2000, but I suppose I could convince myself to go as high as maybe $3000-$3500 ... I was reading about KAWAI’s novus sound engine, yamahas grand expression modeling ... are these features worth the higher price point?

I don’t “need” portability (although it is nice to be able to take out a couple screws and carry my YDP to a different location when need be).. The most important factors to me are action and sound, I could do without all the extra fluff (but if it might entice my kids to play, I wouldn’t mind it either!) My biggest hang up is living in central maine, I’ve got a 2.5 hour drive to NH or Boston to actually try out these models before I make a decision on what to purchase.

So I’m kind of at a loss. Anyone have any suggestions for a nice (at MAX $4000) DP in the $2000-$3000ish range?

Re: Kawai announces ES920 and ES520 portable digital pianos
dp7 #3043773 11/08/20 09:59 AM
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Hi dp7, was it just that one key that was clicking slightly?

Re: Kawai announces ES920 and ES520 portable digital pianos
Kawai James #3043776 11/08/20 10:10 AM
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I got around to upgrading the firmware on my ES920 so I could try out the Piano Remote app.

So far it's only of limited use as it only allows the customisation and transition of sound. However it does it pretty well in my opinion. It's a more intuitive way to create new sounds, and it's very easy and smooth to transition between them.

The only criticism is that that's pretty much all you can do on it, at least so far. Personally I'd like to see it capable of navigating the USB menu, which is a pretty clunky experience on a keyboard, trying to find your way through the upper and lower case alphabet with little up and down arrows.

Re: Kawai announces ES920 and ES520 portable digital pianos
casiobro #3043777 11/08/20 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by casiobro
Is the RHC II in the ES520 the same as the RHC II in the Kawai ES7?

Kawai ES7 didn't have RHCII. It had RHII which is like the RHIII but without counterweights.

Re: Kawai announces ES920 and ES520 portable digital pianos
Studiojobs #3043778 11/08/20 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Studiojobs
I was leaning towards the KAWAI [...] but after seeing the above video I am skeptical.

It shows one clicking key in one Kawai ES920 and Kawai will take care of it under warranty.

Is it a sign of a larger problem? I guess we don't know yet.

Re: Kawai announces ES920 and ES520 portable digital pianos
clothearednincompo #3043785 11/08/20 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by clothearednincompo
It shows one clicking key in one Kawai ES920 and Kawai will take care of it under warranty.

Is it a sign of a larger problem? I guess we don't know yet.

So it seem the damned click did not go away with the the new contact strips (and associated PCB) design. So we must resignate to the fact some Kawais just click. Live with that or go elsewhere.


Kawai ES8, Roland RD2000, Yamaha AG06 mixer, Presonus Eris E5 monitors, Sennheiser HD598SR phones.
Re: Kawai announces ES920 and ES520 portable digital pianos
clothearednincompo #3043796 11/08/20 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by clothearednincompo
It shows one clicking key in one Kawai ES920 and Kawai will take care of it under warranty.

Is it a sign of a larger problem? I guess we don't know yet.


Well.. I don’t have a lot of experience with buying DP’s, but I have purchased several new smartphones. And one thing that I have learned is, if you don’t want to mess around being a guinea pig, wait 6-12 months before buying something that was just released. I was excited at the prospect of a brand new model, but that video reminded me of my general “wait and see how it goes” rule :-P

Re: Kawai announces ES920 and ES520 portable digital pianos
Studiojobs #3043797 11/08/20 11:26 AM
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I wouldn't worry. It's one key. One of my keys was rubbing slightly. It was very straightforward to fix in warranty, in my own home, without hassle. Speaking to the piano technician, it's pretty common for individual key problems like this across all the manufacturers. Often it's just one key guide that needs a little more grease.

Re: Kawai announces ES920 and ES520 portable digital pianos
Kawai James #3043811 11/08/20 12:35 PM
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Has anyone played these three in the high end price point and have a chance to compare them (Roland/Yamaha/kawai)? Is there a major difference in the action? Anything to watch out for? When I make my trip to Boston I will definitely report my findings on everything I try!

Re: Kawai announces ES920 and ES520 portable digital pianos
Adem #3043812 11/08/20 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Studiojobs
Hello all. Not sure if this is the right place to ask this, I had been looking to purchase a new (or used) DP to upgrade my old Yamaha YDP-213. I had been looking at something along the lines of:
YAMAHA P515 or P255
ROLAND FP90 or FP80
KAWAI ES920 or ES8

I was leaning towards the KAWAI as I have heard the action is a bit “lighter” which I tend to prefer, but after seeing the above video I am skeptical.

My budget was initially set at $2000, but I suppose I could convince myself to go as high as maybe $3000-$3500 ... I was reading about KAWAI’s novus sound engine, yamahas grand expression modeling ... are these features worth the higher price point?

I don’t “need” portability (although it is nice to be able to take out a couple screws and carry my YDP to a different location when need be).. The most important factors to me are action and sound, I could do without all the extra fluff (but if it might entice my kids to play, I wouldn’t mind it either!) My biggest hang up is living in central maine, I’ve got a 2.5 hour drive to NH or Boston to actually try out these models before I make a decision on what to purchase.

So I’m kind of at a loss. Anyone have any suggestions for a nice (at MAX $4000) DP in the $2000-$3000ish range?
Hi studiojobs. I think you'll may find this reading helpful. Bear in mind that I only considered "portables" DP under the 2000 price tag.
If you wanna pay more, of course the market offers other possibilities that other users will explain to you for sure.

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...0-digital-piano-actions.html#Post3039860



Originally Posted by EVC2017
Originally Posted by clothearednincompo
It shows one clicking key in one Kawai ES920 and Kawai will take care of it under warranty.

Is it a sign of a larger problem? I guess we don't know yet.

So it seem the damned click did not go away with the the new contact strips (and associated PCB) design. So we must resignate to the fact some Kawais just click. Live with that or go elsewhere.
Originally Posted by clothearednincompo
Originally Posted by Studiojobs
I was leaning towards the KAWAI [...] but after seeing the above video I am skeptical.

It shows one clicking key in one Kawai ES920 and Kawai will take care of it under warranty.

Is it a sign of a larger problem? I guess we don't know yet.

Originally Posted by Adem
Hi dp7, was it just that one key that was clicking slightly?
Originally Posted by Adem
I wouldn't worry. It's one key. One of my keys was rubbing slightly. It was very straightforward to fix in warranty, in my own home, without hassle. Speaking to the piano technician, it's pretty common for individual key problems like this across all the manufacturers. Often it's just one key guide that needs a little more grease.
Hey Adem, nice to see you again.
As I said in my previous post, the whole action seemed a bit uneven after a very short time. That key wasn't the only one presenting that problem, but was the worse for sure. But because the instrument did not arrive like that, but started presenting these problems within I think 10hrs of playing, I though that that key was simply more ahead of others in term of "wearing", and so others will have followed him in few days (as probably was already happening). The action at D1 was perfect. To me it's unacceptable in this price range to have this sort of problems in this short amount of time. We're not talking about a 300€ keyboard.
Also, I perceived a different force of some keys when they were returning in position. With these keys, repetition speed was worsened by the lack of fallback force of the keys. The exact opposite of what happens with the P-515 (that is by the way exagerated).

I read A LOT before doing my purchase, and also the ES8 seemed a problematic product, even if the playing experience was stunning (just like the ES-920 was to me). I felt really bad returning my unit but with this damn COVID I need an instrument that will spend more time at my home than in repairing.

All bear in mind that I speak for my personal experience. Maybe all the other ES-920 are with perfect internal speakers and a durable and sturdy action/construction. After all, I loved anyway my KAWAI because of its beautiful tone. Wish I had the chance to keep it and be happy with it.

Last edited by dp7; 11/08/20 12:44 PM.
Re: Kawai announces ES920 and ES520 portable digital pianos
dp7 #3043887 11/08/20 07:34 PM
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Hi! I saw that you were waiting for the FP90 instead, how do you like it compared to the ES920?

Re: Kawai announces ES920 and ES520 portable digital pianos
Kawai James #3043940 11/09/20 12:05 AM
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Not sure if this has been brought up, let alone answered, but when are these pianos available in the USA?

Re: Kawai announces ES920 and ES520 portable digital pianos
dp7 #3043956 11/09/20 02:34 AM
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Hello dp7,

Originally Posted by dp7
As promised...

Thanks for the video.

I could not tell what was causing that knocking sound, however I expect your dealer would have been able to resolve this issue without too much difficulty.

It's unfortunate that you decided to return the instrument, but I accept that sometimes these things happen.

Best of luck with your next piano.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Kawai announces ES920 and ES520 portable digital pianos
Adem #3043957 11/09/20 02:39 AM
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Hello Adem,

Thank you for your feedback.

Originally Posted by Adem
So far it's only of limited use as it only allows the customisation and transition of sound. However it does it pretty well in my opinion. It's a more intuitive way to create new sounds, and it's very easy and smooth to transition between them.

I expect you're aware of this already, but tapping the sound name towards the bottom of the screen opens the editor window.

Originally Posted by Adem
Personally I'd like to see it capable of navigating the USB menu, which is a pretty clunky experience on a keyboard, trying to find your way through the upper and lower case alphabet with little up and down arrows.

May I ask if you can be more specific, please? Are you referring to the navigating the functions of the USB menu itself (e.g. Load Song, Save Song, etc.)?

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Kawai announces ES920 and ES520 portable digital pianos
EVC2017 #3043960 11/09/20 02:45 AM
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Originally Posted by EVC2017
So it seem the damned click did not go away with the the new contact strips (and associated PCB) design.

As you're aware, the internal mechanism of a digital piano keyboard action is pretty complicated. There are quite a few different components that can touch, rub against, or knock into each other, resulting in some kind of unexpected noise. As I mentioned to dp7, I don't know what might have caused the knocking sound when releasing the F# key in the video, however I don't believe it's necessarily the hammer sensor/switch.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.
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