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String broke at the loop...splice the bottom end
#3043034 11/05/20 06:27 PM
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Duaner Offline OP
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About a month ago I tuned a piano that was very flat (about -75 as I remember) so I brought it up to pitch. No problem. Then I got a call this last week that "there is a strange sound in and around middle C" from that customer....went there today and B3 (wound string) had snapped. Strange that it broke at the loop on the bottom....that was a first for me breaking at the bottom in the loop. Anyway, I looked the situation over and "was tempted" to make another loop and also splice the string at the bottom. I didn't do it in the end (chickened out). I figured I'd go to all that work and it would sound horrible....but I don't know for sure.

Do you think I could have gotten away with a new loop and spliced string at the bottom would it match its neighbor string tone-wise? Has anyone ever run into this situation before and what did you do about it....same as me I'm betting....

Last edited by Duaner; 11/05/20 06:27 PM.

Duane Graves


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Re: String broke at the loop...splice the bottom end
Duaner #3043063 11/05/20 08:36 PM
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It can be done successfully. The challenging part is guessing the proper length of the new splice so that the wrap ends up in the correct place.


Professional Piano Technician serving the Tampa bay area. website: mckaigpianoservice.com
Re: String broke at the loop...splice the bottom end
Duaner #3043069 11/05/20 09:03 PM
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What your saying then, Bill, is that it's a long shot. I'll probably never see this again anyway and I cut the top to get the coil off easier so that one cannot happen.

Last edited by Duaner; 11/05/20 09:04 PM.

Duane Graves


"Pushin 70...still haven fun I think..."
Re: String broke at the loop...splice the bottom end
Duaner #3043166 11/06/20 07:45 AM
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Duane,

What you need to do is PRACTICE on a piece of junk somewhere. Yes, it can be done and you should learn to do it, although it is intimidating. Splicing skill is similar to things a doctor in the field with limited tools and supplies would do to save a patient. You can also splice within the speaking length under duress.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: String broke at the loop...splice the bottom end
Duaner #3043201 11/06/20 09:47 AM
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You can and should take risks with wound strings. If you cannot resetting on strings without loss, then you can turnit's upside down. For fixingit's you can make 1turn coil per pin. The main condition is that the winding should not lie on bass bridge.
There's such an inverted string:

good lucks,

Re: String broke at the loop...splice the bottom end
Duaner #3043207 11/06/20 10:13 AM
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Hi Peter and Max.....just to say I do splice strings teaching myself this a few years ago and have done it a few times with success and also have formed loops even made a couple of loop makers BUT the loop being broken there at the bottom made me think that forming a loop then splicing the loop to the "bottom" of the string would not work sound-wise when it is matched to the its sister string. I guess I thought that all that work would end up fruitless so why bother. But you are all telling me that that may (worth a try) work. Is that right?

Max, I wish I had a way of translating your video but I think I get the jest of what you are pointing out. tks.

You can also splice within the speaking length under duress.....what do you mean Peter, "under duress"....? do you mean when my options are limited something like that?

Last edited by Duaner; 11/06/20 10:17 AM.

Duane Graves


"Pushin 70...still haven fun I think..."
Re: String broke at the loop...splice the bottom end
Duaner #3043322 11/06/20 05:07 PM
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It can be done but you would need to combine a splice and loop together. Either one first makes it difficult to do the other. Especially difficult if the backlength is short.

When I have had it, some more strings have subsequently broken in the same way on the same piano when tuning up. It appeared that the loops (English loops) must have been wound with bends that were too tight and thus weakened the metal. Also, the times that I had it were always with the same piano make and approximate age.


Chris Leslie
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Re: String broke at the loop...splice the bottom end
Duaner #3043349 11/06/20 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Duaner
Hi Peter and Max.....just to say I do splice strings teaching myself this a few years ago and have done it a few times with success and also have formed loops even made a couple of loop makers BUT the loop being broken there at the bottom made me think that forming a loop then splicing the loop to the "bottom" of the string would not work sound-wise when it is matched to the its sister string. I guess I thought that all that work would end up fruitless so why bother. But you are all telling me that that may (worth a try) work. Is that right?

Max, I wish I had a way of translating your video but I think I get the jest of what you are pointing out. tks.

You can also splice within the speaking length under duress.....what do you mean Peter, "under duress"....? do you mean when my options are limited something like that?

Since there may come a time when the ONLY way to make the thing work then and there is to make the difficult splice, it's good to have a little practice under your belt. It will be tricky, but it's a good feeling when you actually get it right.

"Under duress"...what I mean is if there's no room between the tuning pin and the nut to make a splice, then you remove some of the winding from the bass string (but not enough to go past the swedging), then the your splice in the speaking length of the string, taking care not to touch the nut ir the neighboring strings. Its kind if a last resort if all else fails. But it can be done and does get done.

I saw an upright at Disney World that had about 30 splices in the bass strings. Whoever takes care of that piano KNOWS how to splice. They were everywhere, in the speaking length as well. It was a Yamaha U3 in front of Casey's Hot dog stand. Got played all day, every day (except now...i think the player got canned due to covid).

Peter Grey Piano Doctor


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: String broke at the loop...splice the bottom end
Duaner #3043364 11/06/20 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Duaner
Hi Peter and Max.....just to say I do splice strings teaching myself this a few years ago and have done it a few times with success and also have formed loops even made a couple of loop makers BUT the loop being broken there at the bottom made me think that forming a loop then splicing the loop to the "bottom" of the string would not work sound-wise when it is matched to the its sister string. I guess I thought that all that work would end up fruitless so why bother. But you are all telling me that that may (worth a try) work. Is that right?

Max, I wish I had a way of translating your video but I think I get the jest of what you are pointing out. tks.

You can also splice within the speaking length under duress.....what do you mean Peter, "under duress"....? do you mean when my options are limited something like that?

Since there may come a time when the ONLY way to make the thing work then and there is to make the difficult splice, it's good to have a little practice under your belt. It will be tricky, but it's a good feeling when you actually get it right.

"Under duress"...what I mean is if there's no room between the tuning pin and the nut to make a splice, then you remove some of the winding from the bass string (but not enough to go past the swedging), then the your splice in the speaking length of the string, taking care not to touch the nut ir the neighboring strings. Its kind if a last resort if all else fails. But it can be done and does get done.

I saw an upright at Disney World that had about 30 splices in the bass strings. Whoever takes care of that piano KNOWS how to splice. They were everywhere, in the speaking length as well. It was a Yamaha U3 in front of Casey's Hot dog stand. Got played all day, every day (except now...i think the player got canned due to covid).

Peter Grey Piano Doctor


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: String broke at the loop...splice the bottom end
Duaner #3043365 11/06/20 07:06 PM
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Sorry for the double post.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: String broke at the loop...splice the bottom end
Duaner #3043413 11/06/20 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Duaner
Max, I wish I had a way of translating your video but I think I get the jest of what you are pointing out. tks.
Duaner,I shall try clarity
if there is no way to reinstall a new identical bass string, I take the broken one and turn it over. Where the coil was originally there is now a loop but from the loop I make one turn coil for it's pin. Since it is shorter, I use the iron pinch which is located higher there. Result: An original wound string works upside down.
regards,

Re: String broke at the loop...splice the bottom end
P W Grey #3043421 11/06/20 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by P W Grey
... I saw an upright at Disney World that had about 30 splices in the bass strings. Whoever takes care of that piano KNOWS how to splice. They were everywhere, in the speaking length as well. It was a Yamaha U3 in front of Casey's Hot dog stand. Got played all day, every day (except now...i think the player got canned due to covid).

Peter Grey Piano Doctor

I hope someone takes advantage of the timing to completely restring the beast


-Bill L. - former tuner-technician
Re: String broke at the loop...splice the bottom end
Duaner #3043499 11/07/20 08:20 AM
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That was my recommendation at the time. That was two Feb's ago. As of last Feb I lifted the lid (no one there) and it had not been done. Now would be a good time to do it.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: String broke at the loop...splice the bottom end
Duaner #3043501 11/07/20 08:21 AM
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That was my recommendation at the time. That was two Feb's ago. As of last Feb I lifted the lid (no one there) and it had not been done. Now would be a good time to do it.

Last Feb was when I picked up covid.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: String broke at the loop...splice the bottom end
Maximillyan #3043668 11/07/20 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Maximillyan
Originally Posted by Duaner
Max, I wish I had a way of translating your video but I think I get the jest of what you are pointing out. tks.
Duaner,I shall try clarity
if there is no way to reinstall a new identical bass string, I take the broken one and turn it over. Where the coil was originally there is now a loop but from the loop I make one turn coil for it's pin. Since it is shorter, I use the iron pinch which is located higher there. Result: An original wound string works upside down.
regards,

****Thank you, Max, that helps a lot and is totally unique. I would never have thought of turning it over and only one full turn on the pin also placing the loop in the higher hitch pin there at the bottom....something to think about for sure....Remembering all these great ideas is truly a problem for one thing they do not happen the same way everytime on pinaos it seems to me some do of course but not all.....cheers to all...


Duane Graves


"Pushin 70...still haven fun I think..."
Re: String broke at the loop...splice the bottom end
Duaner #3043692 11/07/20 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Duaner
Originally Posted by Maximillyan
Originally Posted by Duaner
Max, I wish I had a way of translating your video but I think I get the jest of what you are pointing out. tks.
Duaner,I shall try clarity
if there is no way to reinstall a new identical bass string, I take the broken one and turn it over. Where the coil was originally there is now a loop but from the loop I make one turn coil for it's pin. Since it is shorter, I use the iron pinch which is located higher there. Result: An original wound string works upside down.
regards,

****Thank you, Max, that helps a lot and is totally unique. I would never have thought of turning it over and only one full turn on the pin also placing the loop in the higher hitch pin there at the bottom....something to think about for sure....Remembering all these great ideas is truly a problem for one thing they do not happen the same way everytime on pinaos it seems to me some do of course but not all.....cheers to all...
thanks, Duane
yes, sometimes it is possible and necessary to contrive in here. Bass strings are always not only original, but also unique. Replacing them may lose the brightness and hard of the sound. There will be some sound distortion with adjacent original ones. therefore, I strongly advise you to always have different maneuver to "deceive" construction of a piano. An inverted string and one turn it's can and should save the situation temporarily sometimes. In some cases, this manipulation can help you forget about the problem for years, I'm think.
I always use a higher hitch pin technique there. It is safe. Max has never had higher hitch pin was breaked. Maybe that's why plate iron of the Soviet is like the hardness of Russian tanks here. I believe that the high pin of Canadian pianos was also designed for double strength.
good luck,,,
regards, Max

Re: String broke at the loop...splice the bottom end
Duaner #3043694 11/07/20 10:13 PM
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a higher hitch pin technique about


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