2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad) Piano Sight Reading
train piano sight reading with your iPhone or iPad
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
64 members (BlakeOR, DaveX, Charles Cohen, aphexdisklavier, anotherscott, c++, DHarris, Carey, 11 invisible), 542 guests, and 387 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4
#3043267 11/06/20 02:45 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 227
W
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
W
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 227
Hi all,

I recently come across this video on YouTube from the official Feurich channel which demonstrated their Model 123 upright manufactured in Vienna. I must say I was pleasantly surprised on the whole by the tone of this piano although it did cross my mind as to how much of this was due to post-production. The treble, to my ear, was quite clean and precise but without being shrill and thin. The bass was also good but there were elements that were a bit 'boomy' (for want of a better term) but I think some of this is just inherent of the tone that one generally finds with upright pianos.

Setting aside the tone, this piano has some interesting features such as the sliding opening on the front of the piano which allows the sound to be released more freely and also gives an interesting view into the piano's action for the player. The thing that really caught my attention though was the fact that the entire outer case of the piano can be removed whilst leaving the piano structurally intact and able to be played. Not sure how many people would actually utilise a feature like this but it was still cool!

Anyhow, just thought it would be interesting for those of you out there. I'd be keen to hear anyone's first-hand opinion having played one of these uprights.



All the best,

Will


Current: Yamaha AvantGrand NU1X
Previous: Venables & Son Academy-168, Kawai K-15 E and Yamaha Clavinova CVP-208

"Insurance broker by day, classically trained pianist by... well, when I'm not working!"
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,108
C
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
C
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,108
I was also intrigued by the spec and the official video. So I paid a visit to Bonners last month and played on one for a short while. To be perfectly honest it didn't leave a lasting impression on me. Indeed, I can't really remember what it sounded or felt like. i was more impressed by the 1888 refurbished 136cm C Bechstein both for the action and sound. But I would like to try the 123 again. First impressions aren't always correct.


Roland LX706

South Wales, UK
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,108
C
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
C
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,108
I was also intrigued by the spec and the official video. So I paid a visit to Bonners last month and played on one for a short while. To be perfectly honest it didn't leave a lasting impression on me. Indeed, I can't really remember what it sounded or felt like. i was more impressed by the 1888 refurbished 136cm C Bechstein both for the action and sound. But I would like to try the 123 again. First impressions aren't always correct. And, having listened to this particular video again I have to say that to me it sounds most like my Roland LX706 - which is good in one sense but not a reason to buy it!


Roland LX706

South Wales, UK
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 205
D
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
D
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 205
Ive watched a couple of videos of this piano, as the Feurich range seemed quite good value (although the other models are made in China I believe). The Vienna model is twice the price of the other uprights. 123cm is fairly short for £10k, as you can get a K800 for that nearly, or a U3. Anyway the sound did seem nice, having a sparkly tinge to it I thought.

Watching the video that case removal sure is an interesting novelty!

Last edited by danlightbulb; 11/06/20 05:57 PM.
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,891
J
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,891
"We at Feurich are proud to be the only existing piano manufacturer..." in Vienna. That's a little bit of a veiled attack on Bösendorfer... By the way I feel like I've met that Scottish guy but I don't know.

Regarding the piano - it's good that they've analysed ways to achieve faster repetition on an upright. It's not always feasible for pianists to have a grand at home. As for the sound of the piano in the video, they might want to devote more time to preparation of the piano.

In that price range it's going to be a difficult product to market. It's up against some pretty good instruments already, but they have some good functional ideas which will help it, like being able to remove the case. That'll also make some technical stuff easier.

Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 6,676
L
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 6,676
That is a beautiful advert for the Feurich 124 .I just loved that palace .I wonder if it was the Schonbrun Palace or the Hoffburg or ....there so many there.
Perhaps it is finished off in Vienna in some way ? Still half made in China then sent to Austria .Perhaps "Vienna" is in the next room in the Feurich(Hailun) factory where the Austrian technicians are ?
It looks like a really interesting instrument especially with
that unique action .I wonder if those are real Renner hammers ?

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,891
J
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,891
There's no doubt that these will be real Renner hammers. In the EU, you can say something is made in a certain country depending on how much of the economic value of the product was made in that country. Even if it has a Hailun strung back, there may be enough Austrian labour in the piano to say it's made in Vienna.

Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 6,676
L
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 6,676
Well the price does not suggest it was made in Europe.

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,891
J
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,891
Actually it’s about right for a mid priced European piano sold in Europe. £10,000 would get you a smaller Bechstein Academy, it would get you a Broadwood or a Cavendish, and it would probably get you a Haessler.

Of course it would get you a high end European instrument like a Steingraeber.

Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 6,676
L
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 6,676
I think it is obvious this is not a European piano. I notice in Klaviano the suggested in CAD price differ wildly depending on country and dealer.
A 123 Feurich is a 48" piano .Anyway I do not wish to pursue this problem of finding the "true value" of a European piano
ESPECIALLY a brand not popular or not championed by a dealer who is a MEMBER of this forum.
A musician ,I would think would not look for the monetary value of an instrument but rather the musical value .

Last edited by Lady Bird; 11/07/20 01:17 AM. Reason: spelling
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 6,676
L
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 6,676
Is the Broadwood not a Chinese piano now ? The Academy is a very nice piano I agree BUT certainly not anywhere near the higher C Bechstein series .I have played the Elegance 124 and the Concert 8
To me the A124 seemed certainly better than the better Japanese pianos I have tried .I agree the price is rather high for North America. But I am not good at pricing .Besides it is confusing because Canada's prices are different to the US prices .It is not just a case of conversion .
No I have not played a Steingraeber and of course everyone knows where they stand. ( certainly the cost )
I am not sure what you mean by mid priced European piano ?
Those pianos are not well known to me Cavendish and Hassler. ( I know the latter is made by Bluthner )
I have not played a Feurich 124 and I may be in for a major shock , but I do not believe Hailun uprights and grands come anywhere near in quality to a Bechstein Academy series so I really do not expect the Feurich 123 upright to sound and respond as well as an A124

Last edited by Lady Bird; 11/07/20 02:53 AM. Reason: spelling
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,891
J
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,891
Broadwood uprights were most recently made at the Cavendish piano factory in Yorkshire England, although I don't know if they still make pianos under that brand name. Cavendish themselves are, according to their own website, fully made in England including the frame. The case work of their top model, the Chatsworth, is made of solid Oak, Mahogany, or Walnut according to the customer's choice. The Chatsworth costs £10,500 so it's quite expensive for an upright from a relatively unknown brand.

The Broadwood grands may or may not still be in production but at some point in the 1980s they stopped making them in England and they became stencils from Young Chang or Samick (can't remember which).

Regarding this Feurich, it's actually too new to the market for us to have lots of information about it. I don't know where the strung back originates. It could be that the frame is made by Hailun but the back post, soundboard, and pin block assembly are then made in Vienna. I don't know whether this is just a beefed up Hailun 122, or if it's a completely new model. There's no point pre-judging it until we've actually tried it, and by tried it I mean also seen several models which have been properly set up, regulated, and voiced for optimum response. A sample of one or two instruments isn't enough to judge the whole brand. Is this piano even for sale in the USA?

Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 96
V
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
V
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 96
The "palace" is the Kunsthistorische Museum Wien. I had the pleasure to visit it so many times when I was a student in Vienna.


VuongMinh Duc
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 587
W
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
W
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 587
I just watched the video for the first time and I am excited by all the innovations. Especially in the action and the separable case. I concern myself less with the origin of manufacture and more with the quality of materials. Knowing that the case is manufactured separately I would believe that many options could be available in that regard.

I would likely be more inclined toward a piano like this than a new Yamaha or Kawai. Of course playing and hearing it could make me lose interest.


-Bill L. - former tuner-technician
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 6,676
L
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 6,676
Originally Posted by Vuong
The "palace" is the Kunsthistorische Museum Wien. I had the pleasure to visit it so many times when I was a student in Vienna.
We spent 3 months in Europe in the 80' s , hired a car ,drove through (after visiting the UK) Europe, living for a few days in one city or another of Belgium, France , Italy, Germany and Austria. In those days one could do that , staying in one pensione or another. Wonderfull carefree days spent looking at statues , pictures or listening to wonderfull music.We stayed friends in Livorno, they gave us directions of what to see and where to go.
I think it was the Hoffburg Palace chapel that we heard the Vienna boys choir sing the Creation Mass by Haydn. So many of these are galleries were once great palaces that no doubt I can be excused for thinking it was a Palace.
Since that amazing vacation we have been back just a few times to the UK, Germany, Prague, and France. However none of these could have been as exciting as those 3months in Europe. This year we were going to Germany to visit Spaichingen and Sauter......the virus , so no.
Perhaps next year and who knows perhaps we shall visit the Sauter , Schimmel or Bechstein factory.......?

Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 96
V
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
V
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 96
Lady Bird
First, this Feurich Mod.123-Vienna is surely not a real European piano like Pfeiffer, August Forster or Sauter which are built entirely in Gerrmany in the factories still owned by the descendants of the same founding family who have preserved the tradition and craftmanship of a bygone era. You are surely fortunate to own such a real European piano. It is sad that Seiler, Feurich are no longer able to be like Sauter or Pfeiffer.
Anyway my plan for a European trip to revisit Ciresa in the Val Di Fiemme this year was derailed by the pandemic. But next year I will be back in Europe with a vengeance and staying for several months, trying to acquire an apartment in Nice as a pied a terre in order to be able to enjoy Europe several times year. I wish you a good European trip next year to visit the Sauter factory in Spaichingen and enjoy a slice of suesse Schwarzwald Torte.


VuongMinh Duc
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 6,676
L
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 6,676
Vuong , Yes I agree that that Feurich is not really a European piano. Feurich are made by Hailun , an exception being made for one model upright piano seems unlikely .The price tells us this as well.
When comes to the present day made in Germany Seiler pianos., I would say it seems like they are still European pianos .The same with the German Grotrian and for sure the Schimmel K series pianos. The prices are in line with other European pianos and Renner action is used in Schimmel K series. They use their own hammers , soundboard and other materials are sourced in Germany.

I agree Sauter is just vastly unappreciated on this forum and I beleive perhaps one of the most authentic European pianos . I have also noticed certain countries rate pianos differently .Schimmel in the UK seems either more popular than Sauter and perhaps more valued .
While in France and Germany it is valued and appreciated, Sauter , in North America it is either not known or no longer championed as it once was.That unfortunately seems a fact.
So Vuong I have tried my best always on PW for Sauter, always
you must acknowledge that .In fact you should let Sauter
know that .It has not been just for myself. If people think that they are mistaken.

Last edited by Lady Bird; 11/09/20 01:17 AM. Reason: spelling
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,891
J
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,891
LadyBird, there are definitely Feurich pianos made in the Hailun factory in China, but how do you know for certain that the 123 Vienna is a Chinese piano? Even if they sourced the iron frame from Hailun and built everything else in Vienna, it would not make it a Chinese piano. Oh for sure, it would have a Chinese frame, but so what?

The price of £10,500, again, does price it along with some European pianos. Again, it sits around the same price range as a Cavendish, a Rönisch, a Haessler, a C. Bechstein Academy, which are all European pianos. Of course it's not as expensive as a Sauter, nor is it as expensive as a C. Bechstein Konzert, or a Blüthner or Bösendorfer, but these top end makes are not the only European made pianos.

When did you start working for Sauter?

Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,108
C
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
C
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,108
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
.Schimmel in the UK seems either more popular than Sauter and perhaps more valued .
I would say definitely the opposite.


Roland LX706

South Wales, UK
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,891
J
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,891
Honestly I haven't seen that many Schimmels in the UK, or Sauters for that matter.

Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Couch to Concert Hall
Couch to Concert Hall
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
master controller 73 or 88?
by stefanocps - 04/23/21 11:23 AM
Classical Style Lead Sheets
by Qazsedcft - 04/23/21 10:42 AM
Newbie discoveries and breakthroughs
by SunnyKeys - 04/23/21 09:11 AM
Bach Prelude tempo
by Hakki - 04/23/21 08:59 AM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics206,488
Posts3,085,736
Members101,286
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5