Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Which keyboard for me and my son

Ronnyy, sorry, no I can't recommend a keyboard that meets all your requirements. I had the same problem as you: Covid19 restrictions + rural location + lack of inventory meant I didn't test a variety of keyboards. All I knew was that my Yamaha NP12 Piaggero 61 keyboard proved problematic for me (though the sounds were great), & I didn't care for the Roland sound at my church. So I scoured the internet over the summer in order to decide. The perfect piano didn't exist, at least in my price range; all had something about them that gave me pause. It might be the same with you, so only you can figure out what you must have & what you can do without.

I would have liked a Kawai ES110 with its "light, springy action" & pretty tones, but those were sold out. I ended up paying more than I initially planned for a Korg C1 Air console. The specs suited me, the action got good reviews, it was in stock. Fortunately I'm very happy with it. The weighted keys feel smooth & even to play, and it's much easier to play near the fallboard now. My fingers, wrists, & elbows feel better than they did playing on the unweighted, ungraded, shallow Yamaha. (I'm 65, & I think the Yamaha was transmitting impact back to my aging joints.) It took almost 3 weeks to adjust to the Korg. It felt heavier to play (like the keys were cushioned), has wider keys, & different key textures. But now it seems normal & quite comfortable to play. That's why I said you adapt to your weighted keyboard.

I think you're overrating the need for easy-press keys for your kids, especially since your boys will grow stronger rapidly. My five-year-old grandson has been demonstrating his beginner piano lessons on my Korg & hasn't complained about it being too tough to play.

The NP32 (76 keys) is graded, the NP12 (61 keys) is not. I suspect that the Yamaha P45 is the weighted, 88 key version of the Piaggero line because its features & operation are so similar. Just a hunch, though.

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical_instruments/keyboards/piaggero/np-32_12/index.html

Right. I was referring to the former because the OP wants an 88 or a 76.

Well, the Piaggero was a really nice sounding keyboard, & it operates on batteries -- that proved handy during a power outage & makes it super portable. Maybe the NP32 might be a good starter keyboard for ronnyy's sons until he can tell if they want to pursue it more seriously. It is harder to play at the top of the keys, and the keys are not standard width. Always a compromise, these inexpensive keyboards.

Ronnyy,

From the sound of it, I'm not entirely sure whether you actually want a digital piano or a keyboard synthesizer?

Here on PW, you're going to find that most people bias towards digital paianos that behave and sounds like pianos, and a lot of the "extras" such as a large tone library, chording, autoplay etc. are just bells and whistles.

But if your goal is just to have your kids learn the notes on the keyboard or understand music theory without specializing in piano, it may be worth checking some of the synth forums to see if those folks have suggestions that aren't always trending towards 88 weighted graded keys.

Also, I think you are probably over-indexing on the key weight. If you're concerned about price and had a budget under $500, then sure, your options open up when you consider semi weighted or unweighted keys. But your kids are going to be fine, I can't imagine they would be discouraged with weighted keys at all. 4-5 year olds learn on weighted keys all the time, and before digitals it was all there was. My daughter started at 5 on weighted keys and had no problem, and my 2-yo plonks on the piano and doesn't care about the key weight either.

When reading your post, I got the sense that you might be projecting a bit, perhaps there's something about weighted keys that you personally didn't/don't like? In any case, my recommendation would be not to put too much priority on that particular factor (if in fact your kids' enthusiasm is what is driving your thinking). Find the instrument that suits your needs, and if it happens to be an 88-key weighted board, know that it won't crush your kids' love of making music; the piano had been around for hundreds of years and if it did that, it wouldn't have survived the test of time

I've had a cheap casio cdp for 6 months. It's absolutely fine for a beginner, has 88 keys and won't break the bank. You can upgrade later if you feel you need to.
Easy.

Totally Agree.


I did. I purchased the PX-S1000.

I like it in every way ..... EXCEPT .... it is quite difficult to press down the keys near the back of the keys.
So, I cannot recommend it.

The Casio CDP-S350 has a ton of fun features, though, that I think would appeal to young boys, especially one about to enter adolescence. He might like the cool rhythms & accompaniments, the 500 tones, usb connectivity, & 6 track recording. The Chordana app looks nice, if you're considering Synthesia, & works on iOS or Android.

Both PianoManChuck & Jeremy See have extensive YouTube reviews of the CDP-S350.

What I really find problematic is maybe better explained in one of the previous videos, especially the part started at 3:50. (There is a small correction with respect to the video linked here, the gram weights have been applied incorrectly, as the piece on the top was not applied, so there is a consistent error in the measurement [of ~7g] admitted later, hence 50g weight stated for the white keys is in reality around 43g and 63g stated for white keys is ion reality around 56g).
There is also one more video in the series, disassembling the PX-S3000...

Still,

• the black keys are pretty light, which is quite ok in itself
• the light keys are somewhat heavier which is quite ok in itself
• but the combination of the two sounds pretty crazy for me

hence I think such a key action is not suitable for beginners, especially for kids as such a key action can develop bad habits that can be extremely hard to correct later.
The problem of course only comes at the time when you start to use the black keys regularly...

Well, this is due to the short pivot length -- the keys have no space to go into the back. So far all very compact pianos (as far as I have seen so far all alternatives in the price range) suffer from this issue.
There might be slight differences here, but only slight ones. I do not think one can deal with this within the given budget...

I've seen comments that the Yamaha P125 is also stiff towards the back of the keys. I've not played one, but maybe someone here can verify or refute that. Fallboard stiffness & uneven black/white keys certainly were issues with my Yamaha Piaggero.

Still, the P125 is a popular seller & frequently recommended here. Odd that Casio is frowned upon, but not Yamaha.

I've not seen comments that Roland or Kawai entry level keyboards have fallboard stiffness or uneven key weights. I've only seen complaints of keys becoming clickety.

Nobody makes an affordable keyboard that doesn't have a weakness.

All the folded actions are slightly stiffer to play close to the fallboard. It can be easy to adapt your playing to get used to it, although some chords using black and white keys present a challenge to playing evenly. I would not, personally, let this put me off too much if I had budget constraints. A better test is evenness of dynamic response across all same coloured keys. My opinion of the Yamaha piaggerio range is they are little better than toys, sorry, and I would prefer a PSR series model instead; of course they are also not (pretend) hammer action and unsuited for advancing in piano.

In theory it "should be" based on the rather short key stick/pivot length and the (yet) unbreakable laws of physics.


There has been hatred against Yamaha's GHS action too (as in the P-125). And not all Casios are a like. The PX models without the S still have the "old" action which some people seem to be quite happy with. (And others find its keys short too.)


They don't have extremely short key sticks/pivot lengths. Nothing like the GHS or Casio's PX-S models anyway.

I had an Yamaha NP32 which I bought on the spur of the moment when my Grandson first said he was interested in learning, before ultimately buying him (or rather my daughter) an acoustic upright. It was OK, but not good, the weighting was similated. In the end sold it and replaced in with a Yamaha P45 as I wanted to take it in my car on holiday to practice. Despite the NP32 being 76 keys and the P45 being 88, the P45 was fractionally less wide and would fit across the back seat of my Audi A3 and of course does have proper weighted keys. It is so cheap these days that I always recommend it as a starting piano for those who are not yet 100% sure they will continue beyond 6 months but always say they should plan to replace it after about a year.

If you know its going to be for longer then the other recommendations (Kawai ES100, Roland FP30 or Yamaha P125) is where I would lean also

Thank you all for the replies, I really appreciate it.

I decided to buy the Kawai ES 110 based on your opinions and that it could be a good compromise between what my kids need and what I want.

To answer a few of your questions below, yes, indeed somebody that I know returned a Korg B2, because it was too difficult to press the keys, it's an adult. Now that put me off. I managed last week to try the Korg B2 but for like 30 seconds and it did not seem to be so heavy/hard to press the keys. I'm not planning to buy a Korg, I'm just trying to explain to you why I was so concerned with the heaviness of the keys. He is playing a few hours a day and coming from a very cheap keyboard. Anyway, this is just a side note. I made my decision.

In any case, I'm happy that I made this choice, and I'm ready to invest some time and finger muscles to play proper piano (at least better than the previous one).

I have two questions linked with the ES 110. It comes with a lesson function. I read the manual and it says you can play the songs, you can change the tempo (which is great), but I did not see any scoring function. And it has only a few songs included. I couldn't find any further information on this lesson function, has any of you tried it?

The second question is linked with an app that I could use it with, ok it has bluetooth, but I've understood that generally speaking while using bluetooth there is a bit of a lag, as opposed to using a cable. I do not mind using a cable. ES110 does not have an USB port but has an midi.
Apparently there is a Kawai android app but it's rated at 1/5 on google play, which means it's not a good app. I've seen it working with synthesia in a youtube movie and that is reassuring. Are any of you using it with an app?

I'm planning to play the songs by reading the note sheet, but for my kids it's more interesting with an app. I'm not planning to buy a subscription with the commercial apps like Simple piano, I find it too expensive about 20$/Eur/month... I'm ready to pay a high one off price but not each month, if one month I may not have the time, I'll still have to pay the subscription... anyway that's another parenthesis, many app developers do that not only for piano playing, also for children apps for studying... not my cup of tea.

The lesson feature can play some wellknown studies at a given tempo right hand/left hand/both hand, then you can hear what you should play.

I suppose you should buy separetely the corresponding scores (or download them from IMSLP).

You have made a fine choice.

+1, ES110 will serve you well. Have fun!

I think that Kawai ES110 is an extraordinarily wise choice. It should more than do the trick and is a perfect beginner-intermediate level instrument. It’ll serve you well.

Don't let the one review of the PX-S series regarding the weighted keys discourage you. I bought one as my first digital piano, coming from an acoustic Baldwin, and I love it. I do not notice any difference in key-press weight and the feel of the keyboard is phenomenal. If I had any criticism of the PX series at all it would be that when you play it REALLY quietly, the keyboard does make noticeable noise when the keys rebound. My Baldwin may do that as well, but it is so loud you never hear the keys. I use my PX-S3000 strictly for piano, I pretty much ignore the other 699 instruments it can play. Maybe someday when I'm better at piano I'll explore the other stuff it does. The reality is that unless you are used to a Concert Grand acoustic, the Casio feels and plays quite nicely.