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Kempff’s version of Beethoven’s “Six Ecossaises”
#3041080 10/30/20 01:46 PM
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Where can I find the sheet music to Kempff’s version of Beethoven’s “Six Ecossaises” WoO 86 (a.k.a. 83) ?

Here is Kempff himself playing it:
youtube.com/watch?v=XlEnAhfgbNk

Re: Kempff’s version of Beethoven’s “Six Ecossaises”
Mark Hunter #3041091 10/30/20 01:58 PM
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Except for the intro in the first 5 seconds and two or three very minor embellishments, Kempff is playing Beethoven's original sheet music. The recording you posted is not a transcription by Kempff. He is just playing this with verve.

https://imslp.org/wiki/6_Ecossaises%2C_WoO_83_(Beethoven%2C_Ludwig_van)

Re: Kempff’s version of Beethoven’s “Six Ecossaises”
Mark Hunter #3041102 10/30/20 02:38 PM
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Kempff’s exceptions are what I seek. The sheet music must exist somewhere because you can find rank amateurs on YouTube playing exactly what Kempff plays in the recording I linked to.

Re: Kempff’s version of Beethoven’s “Six Ecossaises”
Mark Hunter #3041117 10/30/20 03:09 PM
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Wow, cool version! He adds quite a lot of things. I only have the sheet music of a "concert version" by Busoni who changed minor things and added a little coda.

Re: Kempff’s version of Beethoven’s “Six Ecossaises”
Pianist685 #3041118 10/30/20 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Pianist685
Except for the intro in the first 5 seconds and two or three very minor embellishments, Kempff is playing Beethoven's original sheet music. The recording you posted is not a transcription by Kempff. He is just playing this with verve.

https://imslp.org/wiki/6_Ecossaises%2C_WoO_83_(Beethoven%2C_Ludwig_van)
I think there were at least 10 different things besides the added intro and very different ending.

Re: Kempff’s version of Beethoven’s “Six Ecossaises”
Mark Hunter #3041120 10/30/20 03:18 PM
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IMSLP has even more versions, one by Carl Reinecke and one by d'Albert! Could almost be half a concert program, or a CD... :-)

Re: Kempff’s version of Beethoven’s “Six Ecossaises”
Mark Hunter #3041139 10/30/20 04:32 PM
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“Even more” in that IMSLP has scores edited by others besides Busoni and Reinecke. These others seem to be the same as Busoni’s.

IMSLP does not have the Kempff version.

Re: Kempff’s version of Beethoven’s “Six Ecossaises”
Mark Hunter #3043377 11/06/20 08:17 PM
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While people are looking for Kempff’s version of Beethoven’s “Six Ecossaises” consider another question.

Some people claim that in fact Beethoven didn’t write the piece, that it is a “spurious” piece.

Apparently Busoni thought Beethoven wrote it. What is the evidence that he did? Is there a verified autograph, for example?

The Wikipedia list of Beethoven’s compositions says WoO 83 was written circa 1806 and published in Vienna in 1807. It also lists
“WoO 86: Écossaise for piano in E♭ major (1825)”
and doesn’t point out any connection to
“WoO 83: Six Écossaises for piano in E♭ major (1806)”

Re: Kempff’s version of Beethoven’s “Six Ecossaises”
pianoloverus #3044082 11/09/20 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Eric399
He adds quite a lot of things.
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
I think there were at least 10 different things besides the added intro and very different ending.

I have the impression I am the only one in this thread who has really played and recorded this piece. With that "qualification" I would like to correct you and tell you what Kempff really added or changed - namely only very few and minor things as I already said in my earlier post here:

- he repeats no. 3 (plays it two times)
- he adds three or four additional notes in the left hand in no. 4 at 1:21
- he adds two b-flats in the melody of no 5 at 1:41
- he repeats no. 6 (plays it two times)
- the ending is not "very different", he just splits the fourths into repeated eights and plays full chords in the last repetition of the "refrain".

That's all. The rest is Beethoven's original score.

@Mark Hunter: Kempff died in 1991. That means all his works and transcriptions are under copyright worldwide, so none of his sheet music will be on the IMSLP. However, I have found his recordings of Beethoven's sonatas on the IMSLP, all marked Non-PD US - Non-PD-EU, and some of Kempff's sheet music (but not the Ecossaises) on other websites that do not care for copyright.

Re: Kempff’s version of Beethoven’s “Six Ecossaises”
Pianist685 #3044096 11/09/20 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Pianist685
Originally Posted by Eric399
He adds quite a lot of things.
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
I think there were at least 10 different things besides the added intro and very different ending.

I have the impression I am the only one in this thread who has really played and recorded this piece. With that "qualification" I would like to correct you and tell you what Kempff really added or changed - namely only very few and minor things as I already said in my earlier post here:

- he repeats no. 3 (plays it two times)
- he adds three or four additional notes in the left hand in no. 4 at 1:21
- he adds two b-flats in the melody of no 5 at 1:41
- he repeats no. 6 (plays it two times)
- the ending is not "very different", he just splits the fourths into repeated eights and plays full chords in the last repetition of the "refrain".

That's all. The rest is Beethoven's original score.
You didn't mention at least three additional changes.
1. Big intro
2. Grace note added around 1:00
3. Doubling notes or filling in chords in last statement of the refrain before his added coda.

So I think there are at least 8 changes.

Re: Kempff’s version of Beethoven’s “Six Ecossaises”
pianoloverus #3044300 11/10/20 04:13 AM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
You didn't mention at least three additional changes.
1. Big intro
2. Grace note added around 1:00
3. Doubling notes or filling in chords in last statement of the refrain before his added coda.

So I think there are at least 8 changes.
My goodness. I mentioned the intro in my previous post already (s.a.). Yes, I forgot that very small grace note which is hardly worth mentioning. And I did state what he is doing in the last repetition of the refrain. An added coda? Where? Not in the Youtube recording posted by the OP.

Re: Kempff’s version of Beethoven’s “Six Ecossaises”
Mark Hunter #3044306 11/10/20 04:26 AM
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...there is an issue with this Youtube recording, and I now know why it sounds weird to me. The recording replays too fast and as a result everything is a semitone higher, as if Kempff was playing the Ecossaises in E major instead of E-flat. I have the perfect pitch, so this is a bit annoying to me.

Re: Kempff’s version of Beethoven’s “Six Ecossaises”
Pianist685 #3044678 11/11/20 02:51 AM
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Pianist685,
Is this one at the proper pitch?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5nXJ_kS1CU

Re: Kempff’s version of Beethoven’s “Six Ecossaises”
Mark Hunter #3044679 11/11/20 02:59 AM
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This one sounds a bit slower:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kLruigKSD4

Naturally I'm willing to pay for the sheet music.

Last edited by Mark Hunter; 11/11/20 03:00 AM.
Re: Kempff’s version of Beethoven’s “Six Ecossaises”
Mark Hunter #3044686 11/11/20 03:07 AM
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Yes, Mark, these two recordings are at the proper pitch. Have a nice day.

Re: Kempff’s version of Beethoven’s “Six Ecossaises”
Mark Hunter #3044712 11/11/20 04:22 AM
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The first recording is about 2 to 3 seconds shorter than the other ones. To create a half step difference it would have to be around 8.5 s, so i doubt the speed is the issue here.

Re: Kempff’s version of Beethoven’s “Six Ecossaises”
Sidokar #3044776 11/11/20 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Sidokar
The first recording is about 2 to 3 seconds shorter than the other ones. To create a half step difference it would have to be around 8.5 s, so i doubt the speed is the issue here.
The first recording begins at 0:01 and ends at 2:27, the other two begin at 0:00 and end at 2:31 and 2:30 resp. That makes a difference of 4 or 5 seconds. But apart from that, I did not mean to say the first is E major and the others are E-flat. Just to my ears, the first sounds like E major and the other two sound like E-flat major.


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