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Help, Please: Roland FP4 and MIDI
#3041068 10/30/20 01:23 PM
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drutgat Offline OP
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Hi,
I am returning to try to understand using my Roland FP4 for recording MIDI, and I struggle to understand the Instruction Manual for the FP4, so I am hoping to get some answers here to several questions I have about the FP4 and MIDI.

In terms of MIDI, the FP4 has two sets of connections:
(a) two MIDI 5 pin DIN connectors, and (b) a USB output


QUESTIONS:
1. In order to record Audio and MIDI simultaneously from the FP4 into my DAW should I use In and Out MIDI cables (connected to my audio interface), or should I use the USB out on the FP4 for the MIDI part of the recording?

So far, I have successfully:
• used the USB to connect to my computer and record in MIDI into my DAW,
• and I have also successfully recorded Audio by using cables connected to the ¼” Left and Right outputs from the FP4 to send the audio signals to my audio interface, BUT if I try using these connections simultaneously, I cannot get MIDI to record.

2. Should it be possible to use the In and Out MIDI cables to connect to my audio interface, and to successfully record MIDI into my DAW?

I have tried this, but it does not work for some reason.

3. If I wanted to transfer to my DAW a performance which I had already recorded in the memory of my FP4, would I use the USB output or the MIDI cables to accomplish this in order to record in MIDI?


Many thanks for any help you can give with these questions.


"If The Beatles or the '60s had a message it was 'Learn To Swim' - And once you've learnt - Swim".
John Lennon
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Re: Help, Please: Roland FP4 and MIDI
drutgat #3041082 10/30/20 01:47 PM
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Generally, a DAW (which one do you use?) can record both MIDI and audio. You just have to create two tracks : an audio one and a MIDI one.

You also have to arm both tracks (the little red record button on each track). Perhaps you have a DAW (which one?) where arming a track disarm the other tracks (Ableton live ?). If this is the case, you may have to arm multiple tracks with the control/shift/option key or i don’t know.

You didn’t say if the DAW record a blank record or nothing in one of the track. You should be more precise than « I cannot get MIDI to record ».

Last edited by Frédéric L; 10/30/20 01:50 PM.

Yamaha CLP150, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
Re: Help, Please: Roland FP4 and MIDI
drutgat #3041087 10/30/20 01:53 PM
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5-pin MIDI never carries audio signals, period. It is for MIDI data only.

USB on a keyboard *can* carry audio, but that's relatively rare, and certainly not in something as old as the FP4.

So the only way to record audio from the FP4 will be via its audio outputs.

You should be able to record audio out of the 1/4" outputs and MIDI out at the same time. If you can get either one individually, but never both at the same time, I would expect that there are settings you need to change on the computer side.

Re: Help, Please: Roland FP4 and MIDI
drutgat #3041105 10/30/20 02:40 PM
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I have an RD 2000... I think these keyboards work the same way... and I use Ableton as my DAW.

You do not need MIDI cables. MIDI is transmitted over USB. For audio, what you hear on your keyboard's speakers, is a little different. I scanned the FP4 product broschure and it appears to NOT do "audio over USB". You need to confirm this in your manual. If it did, both signals would go over the same USB cable together as it does on my RD 2000. But I don't think it does audio over USB so... you can send one of your keyboard parts out the USB port ... MIDI information... by setting the buttons on that part on your keyboard. Again, check your manual for this... on my RD-2000 and my way older Roland, it used green light to show a MIDI signal is heading out. You also need to see (or set) what MIDI channel it is on, and match that in your DAW.

If your keyboard does not send audio out over USB and you want to record what you hear from your keyboard speakers along with MIDI (as I do on my DAW), first is to check your manual for how to do this of course... they may have instructions... but in general, you take the analog out from your keyboard and connect it to an "audio interface" like a Focusrite Scarlet. This box will convert the analog signal to digital, and send it out over another USB cable to your computer. Your computer will now have two USB cables going into it. Then in your DAW, you can select which input is assigned to whatever tracks you want to record.... you can then record both at the same time.

Now you could take the analog out from your keyboard and with a "Y" adapter, plug it into the microphone jack on your computer. Then the computer will do the analog to digital conversion but this will usually not sound so good, so I don't recommend this, but it is way cheaper to do it this way than by that interface.

There may be some nuances to what I just wrote... or maybe some just wrong things!..... but in general, I think this is the information you are asking about.

Peace
Bruce in Philly

Last edited by Bruce In Philly; 10/30/20 02:46 PM.

Peace
Bruce in Philly
Re: Help, Please: Roland FP4 and MIDI
drutgat #3041111 10/30/20 02:50 PM
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“ Now you could take the analog out from your keyboard and with a "Y" adapter, plug it into the microphone jack on your computer. ”

On a desktop PC, I will choose the Line in jack (blue).

On a laptop PC, I would purchase an audio interface (Focusrite 2i2, Steinberg UR22. Thus last one has a MIDI input which can be handy and make free a USB socket...)

Last edited by Frédéric L; 10/30/20 02:52 PM.

Yamaha CLP150, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
Re: Help, Please: Roland FP4 and MIDI
drutgat #3041486 10/31/20 05:13 PM
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drutgat Offline OP
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Hi Frédéric L, anotherscott, and Bruce In Philly.

Many thanks for your answers.

Just to clarify a couple of things I said in my original post, I want to say that I have successfully:
• used the USB from my FP4 to connect to my computer and record in MIDI into my DAW

and

• I have also successfully recorded Audio by using cables connected to the ¼” Left and Right outputs from the FP4 to carry the audio signals to the inputs of my audio interface; the audio interface is connected to my computer using USB (the audio gets converted to digital and carried, via the USB to the computer and DAW).

BUT if I try using the MIDI and audio connections described above simultaneously, I cannot get MIDI to record. I can get audio to record this way, but not MIDI.

So, I do know how to record audio from the FP4 into my DAW (Reaper, and before that GarageBand), using the audio cables going into my Audio Interface, in the way I describe above.

I also do know how to get MIDI into my computer using a USB cable to connect my FP4 directly to the computer.

What I am trying to do is to simultaneously record MIDI and audio.

As far as I am aware this can be accomplished in one of two ways:
1. Either by using my audio interface and the USB plugged into my computer at the same time (the audio interface plugged into one USB port on my computer, and the keyboard plugged into another, a second USB port on my computer).

2. Or, by using the 5 PIN DIN ports on the back of my FP4 to get the MIDI into my audio interface, and from there into my computer (instead of using the USB from my FP4 directly into my computer to do this).

To be very clear, in using my audio interface in this way, I would have both the MIDI connectors, and the 1/4" Left and Right audio cables plugged into my audio interface, and the idea would be for the audio interface to route the audio through the cables to carry the audio, and for it to route the MIDI via the MIDI cables.

Both the MIDI and Audio signals are then carried to the computer via the USB.

For some reason, though, I am not able to record these signals simultaneously.

Here is a video of this being accomplished successfully using method 1 above, using exactly the same DAW I am using - but I cannot get this to work, and think that it is something to do with the FP4:

'Record Audio and MIDI at the Same Time: Connect & Record your Keyboard in Reaper DAW Software'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0pUyixJ_A8&t=69s


"If The Beatles or the '60s had a message it was 'Learn To Swim' - And once you've learnt - Swim".
John Lennon
Re: Help, Please: Roland FP4 and MIDI
drutgat #3041497 10/31/20 05:36 PM
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You say you can’t get this to work but don’t describe precisely what is happening. Then I can’t have a clue to help.

Perhaps a screen shot after the first record would help.


Yamaha CLP150, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
Re: Help, Please: Roland FP4 and MIDI
Frédéric L #3041536 10/31/20 07:16 PM
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drutgat Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Frédéric L
You say you can’t get this to work but don’t describe precisely what is happening. Then I can’t have a clue to help.

Perhaps a screen shot after the first record would help.

Thanks for your message, Frédéric L.

Sorry, I thought that I had described what was happening in excruciatingly precise detail - I was hoping to not put you all off reading the message smile

The good news is that I got this working.

For the record, I could not get audo or MIDI to record at the same time when my USB was plugged directly into my computer from my FP4, and at the same time my audo cables (connected to the outputs on the FP4) were plugged into my audio interface (which was connected to my computer by a USB cable).

I think that I would have had to post at least 5 screenshots covering all the settings I had chosen in my DAW alone, never mind trying to troubleshoot the settings on my FP4, but I will bear this in mind for next time I have a question like this.

Thank you for hanging in there with me, and being willing to help - I really appreciate it.

By the way, I have no idea why this started to work for me, as I *think* that I was following the same process and making the same choices in setting everything up electronically and within my DAW as I had been previously.

Of course, I probably did something different, but there is also a small chance that some setting I adjusted/played with on the FP4 over the past few days might have made a difference: I have no idea what that might have been, though.

Now I can actually post a musical question elsewhere here in order to try to help with my (at the moment) complete lack of talent in improvising a little during a song.

Last edited by drutgat; 10/31/20 07:22 PM.

"If The Beatles or the '60s had a message it was 'Learn To Swim' - And once you've learnt - Swim".
John Lennon

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