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It's funny how lot of folks went for the N1X mostly because of the price but I had them both at the same price if not slightly cheaper the NV10.

Last edited by Alexander Acosta; 10/29/20 09:05 PM.
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So if the price is the same between the NV10 and the N1X, and there's no binaural sample of the CFX for the N1X, would N1X owners have considered the NV10 much more seriously?

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Originally Posted by Alexander Acosta
It's funny how lot of folks went for the N1X mostly because of the price but I had them both at the same price if not slightly cheaper the NV10.

Price was a factor for me, but more so the action. Ironically, the NV10 did not feel anything like the Kawai acoustic pianos I am used to playing (Kawai KG-1C 5' grand and Kawai KG-5C 6' 7" grand). The N1X action felt more substantial and was similar to the Kawai acoustics. I still find the N1X easier to play than the Kawai acoustics in my churches, but the NV10 would have been even easier to play, and I didn't want something that detached from the real thing.

However, I would like to try an NV10 again now that I've accumulated a few more hours behind the keys.

Here is one of the Kawai acoustics I play (6' 7")



God Bless,
David


Yamaha AdvantGrand N1X
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I’ll just take the one with the touch and tone that I like. Although, the one and only Kawai dealer in our country does not have the NV10 for testing out frown

It does seem like more people prefer the action of the NV10 to the N1X.


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I'm wondering if the actions of individual units vary a lot if those hybrid pianos were not regulated rigidly before going out of the factory.

Yamaha dealer usually has multiple AGs (usually at least one unit per model) but I rarely see Kawai dealers have two NV10 to try. Wondering if people find differences among different AG units in the same dealer (for example among N1X, N2, N3X).


Piano: 1982 NY Steinway Model B, Yamaha AvantGrand N3X
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Originally Posted by Harpuia
I'm wondering if the actions of individual units vary a lot if those hybrid pianos were not regulated rigidly before going out of the factory.

The thing to realize is that this is the common state of the world for acoustic pianos, too. Go to a Steinway showroom and no two Model Ms will feel the same. I think in this sense, the hybrids simply inherit the variability that is natural in acoustic actions.


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Originally Posted by Harpuia
I'm wondering if the actions of individual units vary a lot if those hybrid pianos were not regulated rigidly before going out of the factory.

Yamaha dealer usually has multiple AGs (usually at least one unit per model) but I rarely see Kawai dealers have two NV10 to try. Wondering if people find differences among different AG units in the same dealer (for example among N1X, N2, N3X).

I've said this before and I really don't have an explanation as to why (nor did the dealer), but there was no real discernible let-off feel (when slowly pressing the key) on the NV10 that I tried. It was unlike any other Kawai in the store. This was kind of a bid deal to me because the let-off "test" was like a hallmark of acoustical authenticity. All of the slab digitals I had previously owned tried to simulate it in some way, but it was still fake. Now the NV10 was supposed to have it for real and it didn't.

The dealer suggested the NV10 action could be regulated to "fix" it, but that coupled with several other issues steered me away from the NV10 to the N1X, which has a discernible let-off and overall a more authentic feel to the action.

God Bless,
David

P.S. I played multiple N1X's at the Yamaha dealer (2 N1X's and an N3) and action felt the same on all of them.


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Quote
The dealer suggested the NV10 action could be regulated to "fix" it, but that coupled with several other issues steered me away from the NV10 to the N1X, which has a discernible let-off and overall a more authentic feel to the action.

I don't think either is physically capable of having the substantial let off feeling that many acoustic grands have. When the latter's hammers hit the strings a substantial amount of the hammer energy is returned on the rebound, and this energy is 'stored' by virtue of the back check setup. So when the back check is released the hammer rebounds upwards quite sharply. The hybrid hammer shanks hit some kind of foam-like stuff and I suspect that absorbs a lot more of the hammer energy. Hence less of a 'kick' later when the back check is released.

Last edited by NormB; 10/30/20 09:04 AM.
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Originally Posted by NormB
I don't think either is physically capable of having the substantial let off feeling that many acoustic grands have.

I don't think this is correct (or we're talking about different things). My NV-10 has a more noticeable letoff than either a Bosendorfer 7ft with Renner action, or Steinway M NY that I played prior to Covid. It's on par in "strength" with a Yamaha C3.

I feel it's entirely a matter of regulation and setup in both the hybrid and the acoustic.


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Originally Posted by Gombessa
[quote=NormB]


I feel it's entirely a matter of regulation and setup in both the hybrid and the acoustic.

Probably so, I once tried the NV10 in store, side-by-side with Kawai acoustic grand, the action was almost 90% identical.


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It seems I generalized without sufficient empirical facts at hand. I can hardly feel the let off on my N1X at all.

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Originally Posted by Evgeny 85
Please tell me what external monitors do you use? What position are they in? Is it possible to put them on piano body?

Hi Evgeny 85,

I have a pair of Genelec 8331A monitors, as well as a Genelec 7350 sub. I can’t say enough good things about them! Sound is a huge part of the pleasure of playing the piano. This equipment is pricey but the rewards are worth it in my opinion. When I play it’s almost as if I’m swimming in the sound. It’s so immersive it was actually a little spooky at first, but fantastic. I just wish my playing was better haha, but it’s motivation to keep improving.

I have the monitors placed on separate mass-filled speaker stands so that they are at the same height as my ears, as close to me as possible (0.7 meters), and in a near-equilateral triangle configuration. Having the monitors closer decreases the influence of the room acoustics which is important in my case since my room is small, untreated, and has a large window, all of which are negatives for good sound. A nice thing about these monitors is that they are ultra-near field and can therefore be placed as close as 0.5 meters due to their 3-way point source technology.

You could probably place these on the N1X directly but they are quite heavy for their size, weighing 15 pound each. Also having them isolated on stands is supposed to improve the sound, although I haven’t confirmed that myself.

I waited over 6 months before buying the sub, as well as the GLM kit which automatically optimizes the speakers to compensate for the room they are in.

As you can see from the graphs I had a big dip in the bass which has been eliminated by the sub.

[Linked Image]

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[Linked Image]


Yamaha N1X, P-515.
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JJHLH, Wow, thanks for the answer! I'm glad you have such advanced system. =) Are you don't use the built-in N1X sounds? For example, how does VSL CFX sound with monitors compared to N1X system? In the future I will become the owner of N1 and plan to use monitors ILoud micro or ILoud MTM, just wondering how much I will benefit in sound.


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Thanks JJHLH, nice setup. Am thinking of getting 8330a’s myself with no sub which are closer to my budget. Is there a noticeable improvement in everyday playing with the sub or is it limited to the lowest octaves? Could I ask which stands you used? Thanks!

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Originally Posted by Evgeny 85
JJHLH, Wow, thanks for the answer! I'm glad you have such advanced system. =) Are you don't use the built-in N1X sounds? For example, how does VSL CFX sound with monitors compared to N1X system? In the future I will become the owner of N1 and plan to use monitors ILoud micro or ILoud MTM, just wondering how much I will benefit in sound.

Thanks! It’s funny because I’m actually generally very frugal. This is a rare exception. I treated myself to the N1X and speakers since after 6 months playing on my P-515 I knew it would be something that I would love and use every day for 2 hours.

Yes, I don’t use the built in sounds. I’ve tried several VSTs and finally settled on one that I like best and that’s all I use now. But the built in sounds are actually quite nice. They do sound better using the monitors, but that’s probably to be expected. There should be some reward for spending all that money haha.

I’m not familiar with the monitors you are getting but I would say it’s highly likely they will improve the sound, making it more immersive. It should be a great setup you will be very happy with!

Originally Posted by dng
Thanks JJHLH, nice setup. Am thinking of getting 8330a’s myself with no sub which are closer to my budget. Is there a noticeable improvement in everyday playing with the sub or is it limited to the lowest octaves? Could I ask which stands you used? Thanks!

There is a definite improvement with the sub, but it’s certainly not required. I played for over 6 months with just the monitors and no sub and was happy. But there were a couple of notes in the lower register that felt a little weaker than the rest. It was probably due to the dip I had in the bass due to my poor room acoustics. That was corrected by adding a sub and using the GLM software.

A sub is something you can always add later. In fact that’s arguably the best way to do it.

The stands are Sound Anchors ADJ1. I ordered them directly from their website after talking with them on the phone to get their advice. They can customize the stands for your particular speaker.


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I would like to ask a question to those who use VSTs with their N1X. Since I first tried the Garritan CFX, I have had a hard time going back to the built-in CFX sound, especially because I use headphones most of the time and IMO this is where the difference between the two is most noticeable.

Currently I am connecting my laptop to the N1X whenever I plan on practicing more than a few minutes. However I was wondering if there is a more elegant solution to quickly fire up the VST without having to waste time on the connections and settings? Maybe a mini PC and some script to launch the software?

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I use Reaper as a VST launcher. You can save a Reaper project (RPP file) with the VST loaded and set up, then any double click on these file is enough to load everything.

The day you have an other VST, switching between them is made quite easy.


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Could anyone owner kindly let me know what the minimum and maximum midi values you can trigger?


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Originally Posted by Frédéric L
I use Reaper as a VST launcher. You can save a Reaper project (RPP file) with the VST loaded and set up, then any double click on these file is enough to load everything.

The day you have an other VST, switching between them is made quite easy.

Thanks! Sounds just like what I needed.

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Reaper works *a little* like Word, you can save a configuration as a Reaper project file or as a template (a Reaper project file in a dedicated folder).

When Reaper starts, it proposes the following choices :
- last active project,
- new project,
- project templates (one choice per project).

The advantage of templates is that if you save a record based on a project, Reaper won’t change the template but ask for a new Reaper Project filename. Then you can easily maintain a set of templates free of records (just VST, CC assignment or whatelse).

All templates are presented in the File/Template menu. It is very handy to load them.


http://www.sinerj.org/
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Yamaha CLP150, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
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