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The example video clip of short resonance
#3040039 10/27/20 06:37 PM
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Hi I uploaded other sample of short resonance.

This is just one example but there are 16 more notes ,

10 in hi treble part 6 in tenor part.

The second G in this video has no resonance.

This symtom is more noticeable when sustain pedal pressed


Last edited by tony3304; 10/27/20 06:38 PM.
Re: The example video clip of short resonance
tony3304 #3040048 10/27/20 07:01 PM
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I'm not a piano tech, but it is difficult to diagnose an issue over internet. I do hear the lack of sustain (what you call resonance?).

Also, be aware that the upper most treble notes do not have much sustain (resonance?) anyway.

Is the piano brand new? Sometimes freshly voiced hammers will sound that way, kind of dull and bland (for lack of a better word).

Has the piano recently had work done to it?

Actually, there are several things that could cause the symptoms you are hearing.

I'd call a qualified piano technician to look at it for you.

Maybe someone else here can be of more assistance.

Good luck.

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: The example video clip of short resonance
Rickster #3040052 10/27/20 07:06 PM
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Thank you Rick, yes the piano is 31 years old but it was restored and the hammers were reshaped.
High treble has short sustain but for my piano, even higher notes have longer sustain than G in this video

Re: The example video clip of short resonance
tony3304 #3040054 10/27/20 07:10 PM
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You should do a little read up on the terminology when you discuss issues like that. The three main components of tone creation are:

* Attack
* Decay
* Sustain

And they are pretty much self-explanatory.

Again, your video is not really helpful for a remote analysis of what you consider a problem.

It's way too short, especially if you pick just a single note when allegedly there are 16 of them, wildly distributed over the treble range. Obviously, two notes apart an octave have completely different characteristics of the parameters listed above. So focus on one particular note that you think is especially bad in your perception and then go about it analytically:

* Play notes that are right beside the one in question, at least two, one above, one below
* Pluck the individual strings of that particular note without the sustain pedal, just with the one damper up (Silent key press)
* Let each plucked string sound out for as long as you can still hear the string's vibration
* Use a tool the lets you pull up the hammer to the strings, keep it there loosely and pluck again
* Listen to whether all three strings in a unisons have the same characteristics in that case
* Try to specifically identify whether one string is particularly bad or good in your perception.
* Find out whether it's mainly a pair of strings that is basically one string wound around the hitch pin behind the bridge
* Don't use a mobile phone that moves around
* Use recording equipment that guarantees a linear recording, uncompressed, no automatic gain control
* Have the piano tuned. This tuning isn't really good.

This looks like fairly new piano, so I expect that you still have contact to the dealer you bought it from. How often was the piano tuned in your home? Always by the same technician? Have you ever addressed this issue with one of those technicians? Have they confirmed your perception? Has anyone ever gone about this whole issue systematically, or is it just a touchy-feely thing?

Do you have a tuning hammer and have you ever laid hands on tuning a piano yourself? If not, don't read further.

If you have, start working on one specific note by loosening the tension of one string and the one right beside it. Pull up one with a little overstretch, tune the other one correctly and finally tune the last string of the unison. Badly tuned pianos have an imbalance in their tension distribution, especially in the treble section where the highest loads on pins, capo, bridge, bridge pins, hitch pins take place. That imbalance produces inconsistency in the three parameters listed above.

However, this is something that only a professional tuner will be able to go through as part of the analysis.

My first piece of advice, before anything that I wrote before: Call a professional technician and have the piano tuned with a clear note to the tuner that this tuning needs to have concert quality in terms of coherence, tension distribution and stability.

Last edited by OE1FEU; 10/27/20 07:14 PM.
Re: The example video clip of short resonance
OE1FEU #3040056 10/27/20 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by OE1FEU
You should do a little read up on the terminology when you discuss issues like that. The three main components of tone creation are:

* Attack
* Decay
* Sustain

And they are pretty much self-explanatory.

Again, your video is not really helpful for a remote analysis of what you consider a problem.

It's way too short, especially if you pick just a single note when allegedly there are 16 of them, wildly distributed over the treble range. Obviously, two notes apart an octave have completely different characteristics of the parameters listed above. So focus on one particular note that you think is especially bad in your perception and then go about it analytically:

* Play notes that are right beside the one in question, at least two, one above, one below
* Pluck the individual strings of that particular note without the sustain pedal, just with the one damper up (Silent key press)
* Let each plucked string sound out for as long as you can still hear the string's vibration
* Use a tool the lets you pull up the hammer to the strings, keep it there loosely and pluck again
* Listen to whether all three strings in a unisons have the same characteristics in that case
* Try to specifically identify whether one string is particularly bad or good in your perception.
* Find out whether it's mainly a pair of strings that is basically one string wound around the hitch pin behind the bridge
* Don't use a mobile phone that moves around
* Use recording equipment that guarantees a linear recording, uncompressed, no automatic gain control
* Have the piano tuned. This tuning isn't really good.

This looks like fairly new piano, so I expect that you still have contact to the dealer you bought it from. How often was the piano tuned in your home? Always by the same technician? Have you ever addressed this issue with one of those technicians? Have they confirmed your perception? Has anyone ever gone about this whole issue systematically, or is it just a touchy-feely thing?

Do you have a tuning hammer and have you ever laid hands on tuning a piano yourself? If not, don't read further.

If you have, start working on one specific note by loosening the tension of one string and the one right beside it. Pull up one with a little overstretch, tune the other one correctly and finally tune the last string of the unison. Badly tuned pianos have an imbalance in their tension distribution, especially in the treble section where the highest loads on pins, capo, bridge, bridge pins, hitch pins take place. That imbalance produces inconsistency in the three parameters listed above.

However, this is something that only a professional tuner will be able to go through as part of the analysis.

My first piece of advice, before anything that I wrote before: Call a professional technician and have the piano tuned with a clear note to the tuner that this tuning needs to have concert quality in terms of coherence, tension distribution and stability.
Most of the above may be good advice to analyze the situation but I think it's far too complicated for the average piano owner to do or draw conclusions from. I suggest making sure you get an excellent tech and then have him evaluate the piano.

Re: The example video clip of short resonance
tony3304 #3040057 10/27/20 07:33 PM
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BTW, here is an example of such a sustain 'hole' on a brand new concert grand. It it appeared out of nowhere after being transported from one concert hall to another. The lack of sustain on the 'b' is clearly audible and it was easily rectified after tuning that particular unison again according to what I described above:


Re: The example video clip of short resonance
pianoloverus #3040062 10/27/20 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
[/quote]Most of the above may be good advice to analyze the situation but I think it's far too complicated for the average piano owner to do or draw conclusions from. I suggest making sure you get an excellent tech and then have him evaluate the piano.

That's exactly what I wrote as my conclusion.

Re: The example video clip of short resonance
tony3304 #3040073 10/27/20 08:24 PM
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Again, I think you need a good piano tech to take a look at your piano, or I would contact the dealer who sold it to you.

If the hammers were filed/reshaped, and the string groves completely removed, the hammers will need mating with the strings and leveling. The hammer strikepoint not hitting all three strings simultaneously, and on a level plane, could cause the issue you are experiencing.

I agree with OE1FEU, the Yamaha grand does look newish. A really good tech could fix those issues for you.

Good luck!

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: The example video clip of short resonance
tony3304 #3040124 10/28/20 01:04 AM
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Sometime when hammers are “reshaped” they are filed such that the strike point is moved. That or too much felt was removed. I think your piano needs new hammers by now.


-Bill L. - former tuner-technician
Re: The example video clip of short resonance
WBLynch #3040129 10/28/20 01:36 AM
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OMG. I've just bought the restored piano one month ago.

Re: The example video clip of short resonance
OE1FEU #3040130 10/28/20 01:44 AM
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That's exactly same as mine.

Re: The example video clip of short resonance
tony3304 #3040240 10/28/20 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by tony3304
OMG. I've just bought the restored piano one month ago.

I wouldn't get too upset about your new-to-you Yamaha grand piano just yet. I'd call the dealer you bought the piano from and talk to him/her about the issues you are not happy with and see what he has to say. As has been said, a really good piano technician can likely fix the issues you are having.

As for needing a new set of hammers, I'd have a few highly qualified technicians look at it first and then advise you. You could have a new set of hammers installed on the piano and still have the same issues, or even worse.

Good luck!

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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